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Post by 190mech on Sept 3, 2019 17:08:37 GMT -5
Ya got an Infrared temp gun there?Nice for spot checking...
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2019 17:24:51 GMT -5
note to self: Never go LC. It works just fine for everyone else. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2019 17:28:25 GMT -5
Ya got an Infrared temp gun there?Nice for spot checking... Yeah. I was carrying it around yesterday to check against the gauge. Guess I could carry it in a pocket or something. Mine's yellow and black so it'll prob look like I'm threatening my engine with a taser when they see the laser dot and all. lol If it would respond, I would totally threaten this thing with a taser or worse. |
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Post by ryan_ott on Sept 3, 2019 17:46:22 GMT -5
note to self: Never go LC. It works just fine for everyone else. You win some, you loose some. Everyone has had their struggle at one time or another. It’s frustrating that it’s been continuous with this cylinder. I think a 52mm cylinder could have better results or use a original head and stock up on head gaskets. I think you’ve beat this horse enough. |
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Post by Jwhood on Sept 3, 2019 18:04:38 GMT -5
Would a Honda Dio l.c head fit on a jog cylinder not sure what the bolt holes are spaced at,just throwing ideas out there!!!
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2019 18:41:23 GMT -5
It works just fine for everyone else. You win some, you loose some. Everyone has had their struggle at one time or another. It’s frustrating that it’s been continuous with this cylinder. I think a 52mm cylinder could have better results or use a original head and stock up on head gaskets. I think you’ve beat this horse enough. I was thinking about the 52mm stuff last night. My thought was they have to be reliable because DRR and Apex used them in their ATVs that people seemed to be happy with. Then I started thinking, where else do you ever see a liquid cooled 90+cc horizontal Minarelli engine that gets beat on like T2? There were 90cc AC scooters and obviously I've done those engines repeatedly for years. To my knowledge, there was never a 90cc LC scooter. The only things that I know of that had them were those DRR and Apex ATVs. Then think about how the ATVs are used. What is the likelihood that a 90cc ATV is WOT for 10 minutes or used for 10 hours straight? The use that I put on them for the car show weekend, which was the longest I recall keeping an o-ring working, is prob as much as most would do in months or more on an ATV a little at a time and the riding was more stressful to and from, even including long stretches on a highway because of a closed bridge. |
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Post by ryan_ott on Sept 3, 2019 19:17:19 GMT -5
I know personally these engines don’t get treated nicely. It’s amazing when they work how well they do it. The stress, abuse, torture whatever you want to call it. I just call it normal - driving at 10,000 rpm for hours on end, just stopping for fuel - why shouldn’t an engine last. The ATVs get throttle, coast, throttle, coast, water breaks. The scoots are full out, all or nothing. Alot of these builds are somewhere around 2-300% of what they were originally intended for. It really is torture...
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2019 23:45:37 GMT -5
Here's video of it bogging last night. Been straightening out PC issues so it took me a while to be able to edit it.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 4, 2019 12:37:05 GMT -5
I took it for a ride this morning with the "new" CDI and a BR8HS with the infrared thermometer on board. I did see 10,000RPM again, but not quite on par with where RPM would be at 100% most of the time. I had a little of a bog a couple of times near WOT, but nothing like you saw in the video at all. Didn't end up sputtering and dying like it did 3-4 miles into the last rides with 8 series plugs. Could even be that it's a little out of tune if the CDI is indeed working better now.
Now the bad news. I pulled over to check the temp and saw coolant around the front of the head again. It's not coming from the edge like the gasket is leaking out. My expansion tank also started to build up coolant again. It didn't overflow and spit out like it has done multiple times in the past with gasket/o-ring failures, but it was slowly accumulating in there. Temp didn't read anything unusual. The hottest I could find was about 140 on a cylinder stud/nut.
When I got home, I left it running and pushed it right up onto the scoot bench. Got out a light and looked around to see if I could see it leaking while running. I found it, and it sucks. There are tiny bubbles coming out of a lower stud when running. Also pressure in the overflow and air bubbles coming up there. Since the lower stud is not open into the crankcase, that should mean that at least the cooling system has breached the seal to that stud passage, but I'm thinking it may be the combustion chamber pressurizing it all.
Plus, there's the fact that when I left the house I had a whole lot of visible exhaust. Smoke tends to create a cloud that you see for a while as it dissipates. I think this was steam, because it came out very dense and didn't look like the usual smoke cloud. Maybe coolant pushed into the cylinder when I had it pressurized overnight before so I could try to see what leaked.
At any rate, even if it were just the stud area, it's not good. Looks like I'm about done with this. I'm either going to try an entire 52mm kit (which will be for 42mm stroke stock 90 cranks) or get a 52mm head and mod it to work with what I've got. I pretty much know another o-ring head is not a solution, but I don't have a lot of faith in a 52mm kit either. As always, feel free to lemme know what you think. Obviously I have the 86cc to build, but even if that ends up in here I don't want to give up on this engine.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 4, 2019 13:27:40 GMT -5
I've noticed that some of the DRR/Apex stuff has a different looking head. Then I saw this parts site, linked directly from DRR's site. They have modular heads in some cases with a second set of bolts to attach the head cover. www.drratvparts.com/drr-atv-parts-1999-2004/drr-atv-parts-1999-2004-apex-atv-parts/apex-atv-parts-cylinder-head-plugSounded good, till I realized it's $140 worth of crap to get the head together and they don't seem to have the cylinder to match anyway. Went to gforcemx and looked at Apex. I always just choose DRR because I thought they were basically the same till now. They do have the cylinders for 90 or 100cc versions. www.gforcemx.com/collections/cylinder-apex-oemI added it all up and that ain't happening. It's about $430 for a 53mm cylinder, piston kit, head parts and gasket kit. |
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Post by aeroxbud on Sept 4, 2019 17:16:52 GMT -5
Looks like your options are not cheap.
I would be giving up on this cylinder by now. I don't see what else you can try.
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Post by pitobread on Sept 4, 2019 17:29:08 GMT -5
Can you go to a m7 stud?
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 4, 2019 17:38:24 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 4, 2019 17:39:00 GMT -5
They are M7x1.0 stock on all of the hor Minas that I've had. |
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mattyslimz
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 222
Location: Northern Virginia
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Post by mattyslimz on Sept 4, 2019 18:32:22 GMT -5
I would be giving up on this cylinder by now. NOT an option. NEVER give up!  |
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