Triton # 2 (T2) 49cc to 110cc & Nearly Everywhere In Between

[jackrides]

Does the new reed cage have a rubber type of coating, or raw metal? Do the inner edges of the cage/reed contact area have sharp edges? If so, polish them off with a very small radius. Reduces stress lines on the reeds.

[90GTVert]

Sept 12, 2019 15:14:36 GMT -5 jackrides said:

Does the new reed cage have a rubber type of coating, or raw metal? Do the inner edges of the cage/reed contact area have sharp edges? If so, polish them off with a very small radius. Reduces stress lines on the reeds.

It's plastic. Nothing seemed sharp to me.



OK fellas. Nothing else to worry about here. A YouTube commenter has it all figured out and shared 3 posts full of wisdom, plus called T2 junk basically. T2 is junk, but still. lol I'll highlight my favorite parts in bold or bold and color so you don't have to read it all if you don't wish to. These are all on my LC conversion videos from the same user.

Post 1 :
"Alright here is my two cents. First off the best silicone you can own is made by Klein, the high temp red stuff comes in a can with a nozzle like whip cream cans and you get it at a electrical supply wharehouse where Klein tools are sold. One can lasts me about 6 months to a year and I am a serious mechanic and use it almost everyday.. You lay down a bead on the surface and then put the head or valve cover or whatever on and put the bolts/nuts also and hand tighten until you see silicone moving everywhere and trying to squeeze out. Now go eat lunch and wait 30-45 minutes and then come back and tighten by hand until it is bulging out the sides all around but don't break the skin. tighten until you have a gap about the size that you would like to have a gasket and then wait another two hours or even overnight. Now when you tighten up your bolts you will have a silicone custom formed gasket and on leaky valve covers you only need tighten by hand until all leaks stop. and it works on any oil pan leak there is, just clean the surfaces real well and you only need to hand tighten, with a socket in your hand of course but don't use a wrench at least not until it is completely cured. I just hold a socket and tighten oil pan bolts that tight, they have never fallen out so long as you have a silicone gasket pushing evenly they won't because they have pressure on them and the bead kills vibration that would normally make bolts come loose. Trust me this will be the way you stop all oil leaks from the first time you try it till forever. If you oil one side it will last as long as you are careful not to cut it or rip it.


Now my suggestion for a water pump is this: Find yourself a Keurig coffee maker and get the pump that is inside that is connected to the water container. The newer the machine the longer your setup will last. These pumps can take 15 volts but the lower the voltage the better it is for the pump and at 7-9 volts they are basically silent. You will have to plug the small line as it is a vacuum and draws air. I have had one pump going on 2 or 3 years now that I use to cool off steam for distilled water. I have three distilling tubes in a row. This pump will pump 4 feet up and fill all three tubes through rubber tubing in about 8 seconds and is able to cool down heat generatred by a double propane camping stove to 50 or 60 F so I know it can move enough water to cool any moped and they are basically free, super small, you can run one for days off a good lithium pack like 2s4p and you can get a buck/boost circuit to charge your lithium pack and also control the flow for 12 bucks"

I don't know that I'm on board with all of it, but that one seemed like an attempt at good advice.

Post 2 :

"Whoever called that a head-gasket needs their tools taken away and all degrees shredded. Make yourself a copper head gasket or at least carry a can of copper spray. It shouldn't take you more than 12 minutes to change out that gasket. If you keep a air pump with you just make yourself a spark plug adaptor so you can take off the cap and put a little air down the cylinder next time. The moment you fear it's blown test it and replace it man, that's a great way to seize your engine.


Moving hot water around don't do nothing. It's not about flow it's about moving the heat out of the water. I can run steam through 1/4 inch copper pipe into a single core radiator. It comes in at 215 on the top rail. I have a house fan blowing on slow speed behind it and the water is at 76 degreesd by the second rail (a/c radiator) and it completely cooled all she will by third rail. You don't even need two radiators. You need air and that's all. In chemistry we always pipe water into condenser from the bottom so that all air bubbles will get moved out with flow. I cool a pressure cooker's output to 65 degrees in one glass condenser using a keurig pump, 7 volts and sling shot rubber tubing. You don't need a closed system if you build it right, just a submerged pump that pushes all air bubles out and lots of air. My propane stove boils 5 gallons of water in 4 minutes and then I distill 1 liter per minute so their is no way that little piece of shit can even compare. What you need is an inverter and a inflatable air bed pump or find one dc, they move more air than any other kind of pump for low power and all you do is funnel it's output and blow it on the place where the water is entering the radiator and it should be cool . You don't need air flowing all over the whole surface, just the place where it goes in but this is something people have to learn for themselves, it's just like trickling water over the top of the radiator man, forget all that automotive crap, I could cool that thing with a twist of copper pipe and run NitroMethane all day long... or the heat exchanger from inside a cars radiator for the tranny is all you need."

And now he just straight up calls me slow. I was gonna tell him I'll most likely be in OC MD during 2 different weekends soon if he happens to want to prove it. It'll just be a pissing match though so I won't go there.

Post 3 :

"My old cast iron cylinder wouldve ate that part and spit it out. It already has eaten two wrist pin holders and not one scratch on the cylinder once I cleaned it up. It looked like serious damage but nothing once the iron wool was done, the piston on the other hand is aluminum. If I was you man, I'd just stick a shot glass of Nitro in each tank and gear it up, that stuff has all the power you could want and you don't need to change nothing, just use amsoil and run super rich. My 50CC v1 would stay up with your ride all day long but I don't have to rev it half the rpms' you do"

Clearly we're all doing something wrong. If we have pin failures, engines die. His engine would just keep on keepin' on. Plus, imagine how badass his 50cc V1 must be if it's gonna keep up with my 103cc all day with half the displacement and only revving to 5,000RPM. I give up. I'm gonna buy a Harley.

[ryan_ott]

Sounds like a typical engineer.

[90GTVert]

Sept 12, 2019 19:14:56 GMT -5 ryan_ott said:

Sounds like a typical engineer.

John has used the term "armchair quarterback" before. I like the idea of "armchair engineers". If that wasn't a thing, it is now. Hell, that's probably what I should have called the site.

[90GTVert]

Dammit. I had pics, but I processed them and then deleted them. Still had armchair engineering on my mind.

Anyway, I dug out the remote mount airbox for use with the larger carb. It had 3 UNI filter vents in it. After finding one in the reed block as shown yesterday, I didn't want to keep them in there. I made up aluminum plugs to put in their place. I don't know that I ever needed the vents in the first place. I did that with my first 103cc when I switched from pod filter to airbox out of nothing more than paranoia that it needed more flow.


Pressure tested the 86cc and it passed on the first try!


I got the 103cc out and on the bench. Removed a bit of stuff from it to use on the 86cc. Didn't get real far. Had to go create an allergen filled dust storm (cut grass).

[supascoot]

Holy shit
There is some units in this world

[Jwhood]

Holy hell ya take a Keurig model "C",you don't want an "A" series the pump relay module will cause nuclear fission you wanna use the the soda stream pump cause it carbonates distilled water causing a cooling effect,how's that sound brett!!lol

[Kenho21]

"it's just like trickling water over the top of the radiator man"

Freudian slip?

[90GTVert]

I turned the garage into a paint shop yesterday. Went to Wal-Mart in the morning and grabbed some BBQ black, gloss white, and a second can of Krylon fluorescent yellow spray paint. I wanted to try Rustoleum's High Heat paint that says 2000F vs 1200F for BBQ black, but they were out of stock.




I was totally unsuccessful the last time that I tried to paint the spare wheel fluorescent, so I gave it a white base coat this time. Then the yellow. Then a clear coat. That looked much better.








I decided to try the zip tie trick that some other members use for mounting tires when I installed the old Kenda on the spare wheel. Eh. I like that you only have to get the bead over once. What I don't like is that you have a double thick bead that's harder to work with. Not awful either way, but I'll prob stick with the regular way. I removed some paint, but paint even came off from just putting the wheel on the bench so it prob needed longer to cure.




The Krylon fluorescent yellow doesn't look bad. It's a nice bright yellow. When I put it beside my powder coated wheels though, it doesn't look that bright. It doesn't glow like they do.





I had the 103 on the bench to take off odds and ends for the 86, so I pulled the head to see what it looked like. So much oil. In a pic or 2 it looks like coolant lying around, but that's just the reflection of a wheel that was a few feet away.











Bottom side.













I don't recall seeing so much brake dust come out when removing my rear wheel before. Nothing seemed wrong otherwise, just a ton of dust. I'm thinking the rough finish left by them sandblasting the drum is wearing the shoes quickly. Everything worked fine though and I still have plenty of the shoes left so I'm gonna leave it be for now.







Here's the 86cc with a little more progress. I cut off the spring hook on the header and welded on 2 new ones. I was kinda surprised that it actually bolted up without more work. Doesn't fit all that much different than it did on the 103.





Then the 52mm head and o-rings for the 103 came in from gforcemx. This thing is too expensive for "cheap" stuff IMO, but I don't exactly have many options. As soon as I removed the packing I said . Obviously a used head at first glance. Disappointed to get this, because it's so obvious that it was at least installed from any angle that you look at it. On the top side, you can see the "torque marks" that someone added for alignment with the nuts I assume. Then you can see that it has had cylinder nuts/washers and a spark plug installed. There's sealant in the threads for the temp sensor.








OK, it's used. I can deal with that since it's not all beat up. The business side is what I don't know that I can deal with. I've never seen a 52mm head for one of these ATVs, but this thing appears to be modified based on the bunches of 90-100cc setups that I've had and modified.

It appears to be milled in the center bore section. Maybe factory done, but it didn't look as uniform as what I've had from factory jobs. I got out a straight edge and feelers and I can get a 0.004" feeler between the steel ruler and the head in the milled area. The opposite of what I'm going for.






The diameter across the widest part of the squish band is less than 50mm for a 52mm head, which would be another sign of milling.




Residue in the o-ring groove.




I could probably deal with that stuff, but here's what I think would ruin it for me. It looks like a much different chamber than is typical for any stock/aftermarket 90cc stuff that I've ever owned. Very little squish area and a wide chamber with a fairly flat roof. From the design and markings, it looks a lot like some of the heads I've cut before.




My heads are mildly modified, though mostly just re-cutting squish bands and you can see the difference clearly in combustion chamber volume just looking at them. It may not be that bad once cut for squish clearance and reworked a little, but I think it would end up being a low compression head. If a head ends up looking like that, fine. I don't want to start off with an overpriced head looking like this though. Gotta contact gforce today.






I looked for pics of a 52mm ATV head just to be sure it's not at least close to stock, but it seems like anyone that posts pics just shows the side that doesn't really matter that much.


Thinking about riding down to OC Bikefest/Delmarva Bike Week today. I actually want to keep working on the 86cc swap, but I've been spending too much time on concrete I guess. My knee keeps getting worse. Now it's burning even after icing it for the better part of 2 hours after I came in. If I stay home, I don't think I have enough sense to leave the scooter alone. Not sure yet. When told that my knee would give me trouble from the crash on out, I didn't expect that to mean it would never really get better. I mean it's certainly not what it was at first, but in 2 weeks it will have been a year since I broke it. I thought it would be more of a periodic thing and by now I'd mostly have forgotten about it.

EDIT : Just e-mailed gforce with pics and told them the issue. Asked if they could send me a pic of the standard 52mm head just to be sure it's not designed like what I got.

[Jwhood]

I seemed to have more luck contacting gforce on f.b they never reply to my emails

[Kenho21]

So you paid for what you thought was a new head and they sent you a used one? You keep it together way better than I do my friend haha. I admire your tact.

[90GTVert]

Sept 14, 2019 9:22:06 GMT -5 Kenho21 said:

So you paid for what you thought was a new head and they sent you a used one? You keep it together way better than I do my friend haha. I admire your tact.

I don't see a point in getting nasty. It sucks, but they've never given me trouble before. I did put the quote below in the email. Maybe the person shipping is not a gearhead, but maybe just a quick word to someone to at least look at a part when it goes into a box since this is easily visibly not brand new. Plus, if it's tampered with, they may have been taken on a return plus now have to deal with this. For all I know they could have an employee swap a head that didn't work out for them with a new one and try to send it. You never know, but it may help them fix an issue that otherwise could be unknown to them.

"I don’t mean to be a critic, but I was surprised to get this because it’s so obviously used and I think obviously tampered with from any angle at a glance."


Now if they don't help me, then you may see my attitude start to shift. That's not what I expect will happen though.

[Kenho21]

Sept 14, 2019 9:33:17 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

Sept 14, 2019 9:22:06 GMT -5 Kenho21 said:

So you paid for what you thought was a new head and they sent you a used one? You keep it together way better than I do my friend haha. I admire your tact.

I don't see a point in getting nasty. It sucks, but they've never given me trouble before. I did put the quote below in the email. Maybe the person shipping is not a gearhead, but maybe just a quick word to someone to at least look at a part when it goes into a box since this is easily visibly not brand new. Plus, if it's tampered with, they may have been taken on a return plus now have to deal with this. For all I know they could have an employee swap a head that didn't work out for them with a new one and try to send it. You never know, but it may help them fix an issue that otherwise could be unknown to them.

"I don’t mean to be a critic, but I was surprised to get this because it’s so obviously used and I think obviously tampered with from any angle at a glance."


Now if they don't help me, then you may see my attitude start to shift. That's not what I expect will happen though.

I agree 100% with not flying off the handle immediately or anything. I'm not saying you should express anger to the vendor. I always give vendors a chance to redeem themselves as well, but I would be more upset behind the scenes than you are for sure haha.

I had a recent run-in with a very popular vendor around these parts where I was very cordial and had to go back a forth with them regarding an issue and it turned out it was a error on their part, which they were trying to blame me for. Even called me a liar essentially. No worries, Ebay just gets a little more of my business now and I only deal with them when I have to. My point is they rectified the situation in the end, but never apologized for being so rude and implying I was trying to use deception to hustle them out of $10 (when I've spent near $1,000 within a span of months), but I'm still so salty and entitled that I take my business elsewhere when I can haha. I wish I was a little more level-headed, like yourself. 

I still get some really, really perverse pleasure out of teaching people a lesson...

[90GTVert]

That was quick.

"Good morning - I can assure you that the head has not been machines or used

It was a brand new crate engine pull off

It had not been used or machined in anyway shape or form

They are all exactly the same as that one but DRR is often out of parts (like 90cc cylinders) so we handle the best way that we can so buy crate engines so that we have parts (not fun for us but only way to keep the parts out in the field sometimes)

If your not content please use this link for a return

returns.richcommerce.co/return/new?c=gforcepowersports

Sent remotely from iPhone


Gary Fallon | President"


I guess I was corrected about it being used. To me, if it has been bolted on then it is used, but that is sort of a semantics battle and of little consequence. A little disappointing to get a dirty head and that's considered standard practice, but I'd rather have parts available than not.

Now the issue is that I have to figure out if this can work. Maybe looks are deceiving and the chamber isn't as big as I thought. I can find that out with my burette. Can't be too accurate unfortunately, because how the squish band is cut will throw it off some.

0.004" is only 0.1mm so that's not really a big deal to have to cut to level before cutting to get a gap there. I was trying to keep as much of an o-ring groove on the outside as possible, just for fear that the ring may not be held in place well enough if too much is cut. 0.lmm shouldn't make or break me there.

I'm just not gonna reply or take other action till I have a better idea of what I've got. If it can be dirty with markings from being bolted on, then me putting some colored water in the chamber should be of no consequence to anyone.


What I find interesting is how it appears to be done. If I had to guess based on this, I'd say DRR must mod heads in house or have them modified from more generic castings. Makes me wonder what the compression is on these things and why they'd want to use a sub-50mm chamber on a 52mm... or is this a 50mm head that just gets used on the 52mm too? Do the DRR cylinders come up 0.004" higher in the center or do you just never get them to seal since they don't show a gasket other than the o-ring. Damn. Now I've got more questions than answers and I don't think Gary really wants to answer them.

[Kenho21]

Not trying to hijack your thread though...I really hope it works out for you with this head and gforce. I'm enjoying the show and learning lots!