|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 5, 2020 12:09:00 GMT -5
I did a re-test of the last CVT setup with 5g sliders this morning. Yesterday, it revved high run 1 then did well. This time it stayed fairly consistent with RPM, but did do best on the last 2 runs. | 0-30 | 30MPH RPM | 0-40 | 40MPH RPM | 0-50 | 50MPH RPM | 4 Run Avg | 3.3 | 13300 | 4.9 | 13300 | 7.4 | 13800 | Best of the 4 runs | 3.0 | 13300 | 4.7 | 13300 | 7.1 | 13700 |
Instead of being really happy to see by far the quickest run I've ever made, I'm sitting here wondering if I could make inserts for the weights to go ~0.1g lighter or heavier and if my clutch spring tension is just right and how it will do with a new belt and is my idle still too rich or is it still better to have to clear it out and use that rich setting for launch and... 😵 I would be in heaven if I had my own private 1/8 mile strip and no one around to feel like I'm bugging them with my chainsaw.
|
|
|
Post by captincvmn on Oct 5, 2020 14:13:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by aeroxbud on Oct 5, 2020 15:35:58 GMT -5
That's very consistent. Those rental scooters won't know what hit them. 😁
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 5, 2020 15:54:51 GMT -5
A friend of mine is a big racing enthusiast that loves all of the behind the scenes stories about development and cheaters and so on and was a fan of Target Ganassi when Wheldon and Dixon were there, so I have actually heard about that place. I was thinking maybe I'd just go move into 190mech's hangar and do test runs down the runway all day. 😁 Speaking of test runs, I did one more set with the clutch springs a half mark tighter. Pretty much the same result. I'm trying to talk myself into leaving it alone. Just change the belt, do a break in ride. Then clean it up and don't touch it so I don't screw anything up.
|
|
|
Post by oldgeek on Oct 5, 2020 16:49:01 GMT -5
.......... I'm trying to talk myself into leaving it alone. Just change the belt, do a break in ride. Then clean it up and don't touch it so I don't screw anything up. That's a good idea, its solid at this point save it for the weekend!
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 5, 2020 18:36:34 GMT -5
.......... I'm trying to talk myself into leaving it alone. Just change the belt, do a break in ride. Then clean it up and don't touch it so I don't screw anything up. That's a good idea, its solid at this point save it for the weekend! It is such a good idea to leave it alone that I just made up 1.75g inserts for my 4g sliders so I can try 4.875g. (Was using 4.75g, then switched to 5g.) I cut one to 1.69g so I had to put a dab of JB Weld in it and let it sit overnight. Otherwise I probably would have been out there and tested already. Just one more set of test runs. I swear! lol I may have had my fingers crossed when I typed that though. 🤞
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 6, 2020 13:59:32 GMT -5
I tried the 4.875g sliders out earlier. Pretty much the same result, just slightly higher RPM. I think I've got more to gain or lose with the throttle response than an eighth gram of weight and I'll pretty much just have to see what it does at the beach because it changes with weather. I'll keep a screwdriver under the seat for the mix screw. Just messing with it for 2 minutes at the test strip, it could change from sputter to bog in 1/4 turn or so. For whatever reason, this thing has always been very sensitive to the mix screw.
Only other issue is that it is still surging when I try to cruise 25-40MPH. I'd like to believe that it's like a car with a big cam and a lot of valve overlap and it's surging because it's just so nasty that it doesn't like riding around at 9-10kRPM. I think it's more likely that I'm a bit lean in that range. It's snappy and running hard when riding though and CHTs are OK. I don't hold it anywhere where it starts to run clean anyway, unless it's basically WOT. Could be hot up there around 1/2-3/4 throttle. I wouldn't know. This kind of thing usually ends up with 400 tuning runs swapping needles and jets and settings and I'm not interested in going through that on a working setup... even more so when there's another carb sitting on the workbench to try out later.
I just put a new rear tire on. The old Michelin Power Pure SC had about 2500 miles on it and I was down to and wearing the treadwear indicators. Normally I would never change a rear tire before a car show in case of tire smoke. I'm actually kinda scared to do burnouts after seeing the new laws and how harshly they were enforced at H20i.
I walked over to the TMAX, thinking I better at least start it up because it's been very neglected this year. The new tires that I put on it last year still look pretty much new and the last time I rode it was 48hoursofruckus in August. It wouldn't even turn on. Dead battery.
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 6, 2020 22:35:26 GMT -5
I just went to record the odometer so I know when the new tire was installed for future reference and realized I've done 199 miles of test rides with the new TPR top end already.
|
|
|
Post by Lucass2T on Oct 7, 2020 5:01:48 GMT -5
So, how do you like it over all the previous setups?
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 7, 2020 7:29:35 GMT -5
So, how do you like it over all the previous setups? The TPR in general or exactly as it is now?
|
|
|
Post by Lucass2T on Oct 7, 2020 7:35:28 GMT -5
The tpr in general and how it compares to the previous cylinders you ran.
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 7, 2020 15:58:31 GMT -5
I've been happy with it. It's not what I expected from a hyper race, but then I guess it's on the edge of being a race setup according to many. It's the most aggressive setup I've used.
I have been impressed with how well it worked with both the Peace Pipe at 10-11,000RPM and the Malossi MHR Big Bore exhaust at 13-14,000RPM. Just to ride it around once it's in tune, you'd think it was meant for either of those exhausts. With the Peace Pipe, it was very rideable and still pretty quick/fast. It got much more aggressive with the MHR and gained some power.
It's a really good setup with the Peace Pipe, and I'd have to imagine with any good exhaust suitable for 86cc with a lower RPM range than the race stuff. At that point it worked OK with a stock ignition and some added advance. It certainly picked up even more performance with the Digital Direct, but the stock setup allowed me to use a full wave converted stator and a quality rec/reg. I'd have to guess that you could mod the stator plate to get a good amount of ignition advance and then use a capacitor to end up with a pretty decent curve if you wanted to really go for a budget build. You could probably get away with a smaller carb than I used as well, even though many tell me the 25mm Dell is too small.
Once I put the MHR exhaust on, there was kinda no going back. We know how that goes. You get more power and you just don't want less. It's more high strung and I don't like holding it at higher part throttle positions to cruise, where I would cruise and generally treat it however I wanted to ride with the Peace Pipe on it. It is addictive to hear it revving high too, or at least I enjoy it. I have no complaints about the performance that you can get out of an engine kit that costs less than some cylinders or cranks alone.
My biggest complaint so far is that they should have found a way to keep a little more material between the o-rings sealing the bore and the studs. A mm could have went a long way there. If not for that, I'd have the original top end on there now with no reservations. The new kit was not off center, but the walls between the o-rings are still paper thin and a bit troubling.
The plated aluminum kit has been less trouble than I thought by a longshot. Really hasn't been a big deal. I had some rough spots after the sealing issue, but they didn't progress in the miles since after some smoothing. I also figured I would melt a piston early on after my first experience with aluminum bores long ago. I think liquid cooling is quite helpful there, but also CHT and being aware of throttle positions.
Another thought is that it would be nice if it were easier to get A, B, C etc... pistons. I know that rrd-preparation lists them overseas (never dealt with them). Unfortunately scootertuning.ca and most others just carry A pistons.
I was considering a different kit because I do want to get more power at some point, but ended up just going with the second TPR top end because the prices are quite a bit different with a lot of options. Plus, some require special header flanges and things that add more cost. I think it's hard to beat for the money. The crank doesn't look the greatest, but I've probably put more passes on it doing test runs than any pro drag racer ever would out of one crank already. I'd still say if someone wants to ride to work or rack up some miles, this isn't the smartest choice. That doesn't mean it can't be a lot of fun for a while though. I don't think I've done much over 100 miles for any one ride. I'd ride it to the beach and back and put 200 miles or more on it... but it kills belts so fast. It was similar with the 103 too. I've done it many times now, but I still don't enjoy changing belts on the shoulder. Plus, sometimes it's destructive when they go and I've had the cords get wrapped around the torque driver and that's a royal pain with limited tools and traffic whizzing past.
|
|
pewpew
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 254
|
Post by pewpew on Oct 7, 2020 16:14:19 GMT -5
I've been happy with it. It's not what I expected from a hyper race, but then I guess it's on the edge of being a race setup according to many. It's the most aggressive setup I've used. I have been impressed with how well it worked with both the Peace Pipe at 10-11,000RPM and the Malossi MHR Big Bore exhaust at 13-14,000RPM. Just to ride it around once it's in tune, you'd think it was meant for either of those exhausts. With the Peace Pipe, it was very rideable and still pretty quick/fast. It got much more aggressive with the MHR and gained some power. It's a really good setup with the Peace Pipe, and I'd have to imagine with any good exhaust suitable for 86cc with a lower RPM range than the race stuff. At that point it worked OK with a stock ignition and some added advance. It certainly picked up even more performance with the Digital Direct, but the stock setup allowed me to use a full wave converted stator and a quality rec/reg. I'd have to guess that you could mod the stator plate to get a good amount of ignition advance and then use a capacitor to end up with a pretty decent curve if you wanted to really go for a budget build. You could probably get away with a smaller carb than I used as well, even though many tell me the 25mm Dell is too small. Once I put the MHR exhaust on, there was kinda no going back. We know how that goes. You get more power and you just don't want less. It's more high strung and I don't like holding it at higher part throttle positions to cruise, where I would cruise and generally treat it however I wanted to ride with the Peace Pipe on it. It is addictive to hear it revving high too, or at least I enjoy it. I have no complaints about the performance that you can get out of an engine kit that costs less than some cylinders or cranks alone. My biggest complaint so far is that they should have found a way to keep a little more material between the o-rings sealing the bore and the studs. A mm could have went a long way there. If not for that, I'd have the original top end on there now with no reservations. The new kit was not off center, but the walls between the o-rings are still paper thin and a bit troubling. The plated aluminum kit has been less trouble than I thought by a longshot. Really hasn't been a big deal. I had some rough spots after the sealing issue, but they didn't progress in the miles since after some smoothing. I also figured I would melt a piston early on after my first experience with aluminum bores long ago. I think liquid cooling is quite helpful there, but also CHT and being aware of throttle positions. Another thought is that it would be nice if it were easier to get A, B, C etc... pistons. I know that rrd-preparation lists them overseas (never dealt with them). Unfortunately scootertuning.ca and most others just carry A pistons. I was considering a different kit because I do want to get more power at some point, but ended up just going with the second TPR top end because the prices are quite a bit different with a lot of options. Plus, some require special header flanges and things that add more cost. I think it's hard to beat for the money. The crank doesn't look the greatest, but I've probably put more passes on it doing test runs than any pro drag racer ever would out of one crank already. I'd still say if someone wants to ride to work or rack up some miles, this isn't the smartest choice. That doesn't mean it can't be a lot of fun for a while though. I don't think I've done much over 100 miles for any one ride. I'd ride it to the beach and back and put 200 miles or more on it... but it kills belts so fast. It was similar with the 103 too. I've done it many times now, but I still don't enjoy changing belts on the shoulder. Plus, sometimes it's destructive when they go and I've had the cords get wrapped around the torque driver and that's a royal pain with limited tools and traffic whizzing past. Im liking the tpr kit too, works well with many pipes and is very reliable. I still think that there is a problem in your cvt, i just switched out belts because it had worn down 1mm in 1500 miles now. My scooter revs a bit more and has no problem with belts (14900rpm)
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Oct 7, 2020 18:14:02 GMT -5
I still think that there is a problem in your cvt, i just switched out belts because it had worn down 1mm in 1500 miles now. My scooter revs a bit more and has no problem with belts (14900rpm) I'm not saying there isn't an issue or many issues... but it has done this with a few Malossi OR variators and both the steel and aluminum OR pulleys on multiple engine cases now. It is an ongoing issue for me with anything that has much power for years and I don't even think I got great mileage out of belts with a sport 70, but it wasn't like this. Unfortunately, there aren't that many 300lb people that beat on sorta fast scoots to have any reference of whether I'm correct or not that my weight is really stressing it to it's limits. I'd have to try to look it up, but I think the TaoTao wears a Bando belt down enough to make me want to change it every 1000-2000 miles and that thing does 0-30 in ~20 seconds with me on it so it's definitely not a powerhouse and I wouldn't expect something like T2 to equal it's belt life. I'd love to "fix it" if there is a fix... short of losing 100lb. It would certainly be nice not to replace belts constantly and drastically change the cost of operation of this thing. Thoughts and suggestions are welcomed.
|
|
pewpew
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 254
|
Post by pewpew on Oct 8, 2020 7:02:56 GMT -5
I still think that there is a problem in your cvt, i just switched out belts because it had worn down 1mm in 1500 miles now. My scooter revs a bit more and has no problem with belts (14900rpm) I'm not saying there isn't an issue or many issues... but it has done this with a few Malossi OR variators and both the steel and aluminum OR pulleys on multiple engine cases now. It is an ongoing issue for me with anything that has much power for years and I don't even think I got great mileage out of belts with a sport 70, but it wasn't like this. Unfortunately, there aren't that many 300lb people that beat on sorta fast scoots to have any reference of whether I'm correct or not that my weight is really stressing it to it's limits. I'd have to try to look it up, but I think the TaoTao wears a Bando belt down enough to make me want to change it every 1000-2000 miles and that thing does 0-30 in ~20 seconds with me on it so it's definitely not a powerhouse and I wouldn't expect something like T2 to equal it's belt life. I'd love to "fix it" if there is a fix... short of losing 100lb. It would certainly be nice not to replace belts constantly and drastically change the cost of operation of this thing. Thoughts and suggestions are welcomed. Hmm, only big difference in our setups are the engine cases. Is it possible the belt may slip in long wot pulls? Or maybe the belt tension is too much? Alignment or belt hitting the cases on the end of the belt travel?
|
|