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Post by maslow22 on Aug 20, 2012 16:08:18 GMT -5
Hello! I'm new here and don't know too much about my moped. I purchased the 2009 50c VIP used about a year ago and since then have blown the engine/it seized on me (ran it w/o checking oil for too long  ). Anyhow, it came with a 1p39qmb. The 1p39qmb is the motor that seized and my mechanic replaced it with a used normal 139qmb. I was able to keep the old engine and have yet to open it up but my guess is that the piston/rings have dug a nice hold into the cylinder. I'm fairly certain, but won't know until I open the 1p39, that this was a 'secret 60' motor. Since the new normal 139qmb has been put on my speeds have dropped drastically. I use to cruise at 37-42 (measured using phone GPS speedometer app SpeedHUD) but now only achieve 32 on a good day, never 40 unless down a steep hill. What I would like to do is get a bbk, 72-80cc (not 100 - I hear that will overheat if going full throttle down a hill) and but that bbk on the old 1p39qmb that is sitting around. I dont know where to even start with this project, I've been looking around here for the answers but not too much on the 1p39 has come up. Will a bbk for the normal 139qmb work for the 1p39qmb? If i put a 72-80 bkk on the 1p39 what else should I upgrade... carborator? I know nothing about carbs btw, never messed with one. Will I need to mess with the variator or the exhaust....in short what bbk will I need for a 1p39qmb and what extras.  this is the moped  this is the engine that is currently attached  close up of in use engine  the engine I want to restore/upgrade  the engine I want to restore/upgrade  the engine I want to restore/upgrade |
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inuyasha
Scoot Enthusiast
Retired Master Chief USN
Posts: 471
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Post by inuyasha on Aug 20, 2012 16:19:19 GMT -5
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Post by maslow22 on Aug 20, 2012 16:36:14 GMT -5
thanks for the link inuyasha, I have seen this tutorial on here and it was very informative. This was done on a 139qmb. Are the 1p39qmb engines essentially the same? Will a standard bbk work for a 1p39? If so, will I need to adjust anything else like the carb, variator, cdi or exhaust? I want to know what I should be buying for this project and would prefer to combine shipping if possible. Thinking of buying from scrappydog but am open to suggestions.
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noday
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 149
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Post by noday on Aug 20, 2012 17:40:24 GMT -5
with the 1p39qmb engines, some have longer valves, some do not. in general, the 139qmb and 1p39qmb are the same engines and take all the same parts my guess is that the "low oil" trashed the old crank as well as the top end (piston, cylinder, valve guides, etc. oil is the life blood of any high rev engine, like a 139qmb, so replace the oil pump & gear too. given parts costs, I would lean to starting with www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=330779024918for the new bbk build then spend time reading 49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=archiveand read everything, variator, carb, etc. then I would go back and read all the old threads in these sections 49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=4perfrom49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=4help |
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Post by maslow22 on Aug 20, 2012 18:52:47 GMT -5
welp, my mechanic screwed me. i asked them for the old engine when they were putting the new one on. they gave my the old 1p39qmb, but they stripped out all of the internals under the starting lever - no cluch, variator, drive belt... nothing, whole starting lever case is empty. guess i shoulda removed that before i took off the head, cylinder and piston. man am i pissed
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Post by maslow22 on Aug 23, 2012 21:07:07 GMT -5
talked to my mechanic, said he'll replace what was missing/"forgot to put them back on when troubleshooting." i am also looking to replace all of the body panels on this moped as well. found some handsome boy side panels on scrappydog, but im looking to replace literally all of the body plastics. every peice is cracked/scratched/monted with zip ties... would like them in black or white preferably and w/o decals. you guys know of any place to check out? they have a package deal on roketa.com for the whole set but when i called to see about the color they said i needed to place the order and finish checkout and they would call me about my color choices, if they didnt have what i wanted i could cancel the order. it seemed scetchy to me and the dealer reviews area of the forum gave roketa.com a bad review. is this kind of panel purchasing procedure common? where else could i find a kit of handome boy panels? im thinking of getting them from roketa or partsprousa.com (need to call and see if i can get a combo discount) link to partsprousa www.partsprousa.com/index.php?ctgry=Body&session_whr=%09%09%28+%28vehicle_type+%3D+%27Scooter%27%0D%0A%09%09%09%09AND+displacement+%3D+50%29%0D%0A%09%09%09%09AND+%28body_type+like+%27%25MC-07-50%25%27%29+%29+AND+c.categories_id%3D1280020 |
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Post by maslow22 on Aug 23, 2012 21:09:21 GMT -5
perhaps this should be moved to builds?
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Post by maslow22 on Nov 10, 2012 23:25:20 GMT -5
Ok, so its been a while...basically - screw my mechanic. I have no intentions of EVER paying that guy another dime! Opened my air box recently on the engine he installed, no air filter!!!! So, hope you guys are willing to help me out here  . Any ways, whats been going on with my build...While riding my moped the other day the nut holding the variator came off and the the three prong kick start retainer banged around tearing up my plastic fan, snapped the weld holds the top part of my kick start idle gear together (pic describing break) and the three prongs that are on the start retainer also came off, luckily no damage to the belt or clutch, so I ordered a new variator assembly from ebay. To replace the kick start idle gear I used the face plate from the engine I had sitting around and just popped it on thinking that would do the trick. Wrong. I guess the starter bushing got lost somehow or wasn't there to begin with because when I went to start it up the starter motor made a squealing fiction like noise then killed my electrics, all my lights went out and nothing would happen when I did anything, horn and all. Busted out the volt reader and narrowed it down to the starter motor  - removed it, tested it, and nothing would happen when power was applied (clamped positive to the wire and negative to the mounting area). Once the starter motor was removed the electrics would work when I would put my key in - dash and signal lights working ect. Rode it for two days (waiting on stater in mail) and now it won't kick start. It has gotten a LOT colder here recently. I live in the foothills of South Carolina (Greenville) and it has become winter this week - at night/early morning anyways. 30-40f at night and 75ish during the day. In summary: --Scooter wont kick start/start - tips? its cold here - should I adjust the idle on the carb? I checked the spark plug, its clean. Perhaps adjust my valves? What are some good winter tips for those cold mornings --Upon seeing no air filter I immediately ripped my carb off to clean it with no idea what I'm doing and now I have a table full of pieces...a link to a how to would be great. All I could find here was a guide for a non gy6 crab and a labeled pic of an assembled one --Still looking to replace the plastic body parts, ideas? is the buying method of checking the order out and having them call you afterward to confirm colors common? thats what roketa said they would do --My carb and engine are a mess - this is the first time I've toyed with it since my FIRED mechanic had his hands on it, there are tubes with screws in them that are not air tight, one on the engine intake the other being the bowl drain - problems if they are not air tight? Solutions? I think the clear one on the engine intake is there to go to the EGR but its not hooked up and I see nowhere for it to go to the EGR - probably going to block off the EGR anyway...I just put a plate over where the tube comes out of the head right?  |
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Post by maslow22 on Nov 10, 2012 23:37:25 GMT -5
 where my idle starting gear snapped |
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 11, 2012 7:39:26 GMT -5
Replace the filter in the airbox (PFS Part# 151-62). You may need to do some carb tuning afterwards, but it sounds like that's not a terrible idea at this point anyway.
Fix your intake leak, or suspected leak. You should be able to pick up a vacuum cap assortment from a local auto parts store and cap the nipple on the intake off with no leak. The screw in a hose thing usually works though.
Make sure your automatic enricher is working. You can either remove it and apply power to see if it expands, or look at it before starting then after the engine has ran for a few minutes.
Iridium spark plugs aren't miracle workers, but they can help out with hard starting. Your scoot should use an NGK CR7HIX or equivalent.
It wouldn't hurt to check/adjust the valves.
I find that the auto enrichers on most scoots really don't work that well in very cold weather, so harder starting is sorta normal.
The float bowl drain either should have a hose with a special end that has a drain plug and/or there should be a scew on the bottom of the bowl to stop fuel from draining from the bowl.
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Post by maslow22 on Nov 12, 2012 0:25:02 GMT -5
thanks for the tips!
went all over today, couldn't find the spark plug you spoke of, had to order it, but i did find the vacuum caps. The carb I had was in bad shape - full of dirt particles and the gasket was falling apart. While on scrappy dog looking at spark plugs got a little click happy... i have these in my checkout currently - starter bushing, both wheels are bald so new wheels, new carb, 38mm air filter, performance CDI, new ignition coil, #38 pilot jet, #88 main jet. Tested the enricher and its bad/no motion. Figured I'd get the carb new with the enricher rather than the parts seperatly b/c it was close to the cost of a new carb. Needed a new air filter, decided to go big - the main jet is recommended for a 38mm air filter and the pilot is recommended for bad starting. Performance CDI and coil just...for more power, no rationalization there. Also picked up a set of feeler gauges and plan on tuning my valves later this week
---Body panels - is calling about color after checking an order out and paying for it common? I don't want to get scammed
---EGR - going to just cut the end off the pipe and bend it shut, unless this is a bad idea
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Post by maslow22 on Nov 12, 2012 0:27:56 GMT -5
Note that those items in my checkout from scappy dog are pending - I have not actually ordered them yet. Waiting on the opinion of you guys to find out if I'm wasting my money - thoughts?
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 12, 2012 7:46:33 GMT -5
I'd get a little more selection of main jets if you are gonna do the filter. A lot of people just go with the recommended and make out fine though.
Unless your CDI is rev limited, skip the CDI IMO. There are too many instances of CDIs doing nothing. You can prob advance the timing by modding the pickup mount for just your time and get as much gain, or more if it's one of the stock curve "performance" CDIs.
Don't but the aftermarket coil looking for power. There are very mixed reviews on the cheap performance coils. Even the "trusted" brands, you aren't gonna bolt it on and feel a difference in most cases. Not a bad idea, but not necessary by any means and you'll be disappointed if you really expect performance gains.
Sounds like a good idea just to replace the whole carb.
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Post by Goosey on Nov 14, 2012 9:26:52 GMT -5
That little pipe, and the extra nipple on the manifold were from a emissions system that was removed. I ran my manifold plugged for awhile, but eventually replaced it with a stock one from scrappy with one nipple. The pipe, I simply removed it, and bolted on a metal 2 holed bracket from the hardware store, with a homemade gasket to seal the hole.
Also, zip ties work well as clamps on those hoses, like on that drain tube.
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Post by maslow22 on Apr 21, 2013 14:16:26 GMT -5
OK so its been a while since I last reported to you guys. Got my motor running this winter. Took off and blocked the EGR with a bent/clamped pipe. Got some vacuum line caps and closed up the extra nip on the manifold. Got the NGK CR7HIX - love it. Got new CVK carb from scappydog. New carb has screw on bottom of carb to stop flow to bowl drain line, so no more screw to stop in line to stop leaks, just a nice shut off valve instead. New carb with #38 pilot and #88 main jet and performance 38mm air filter all from scrappy - ran fine like this throughout the winter. I removed the starter from the 1p39qmb I had sitting around and used it, the one on the 139qmb was shot. It would start using electric start for about a month or 2 then the electrics started to go south; starter stopped working, while riding blinkers would light but wouldn't blink, head lights would dim when brakes were pressed and when I would put the key in no lights would turn on until I kicked the motor over - battery would not self charge, I would need to trickle charge over night and all this would get fixed but only for a matter of hours and the starter wouldn't work even after a fresh charge - would roll over one or two times and starter would die.. so I just went to kick starting it. I think possibly the battery on the scoot has gone bad as well as the starter. Charging system would read well while it was running so I'm pretty sure that is ok and the problem is the battery....anyways, fast forward to the last few days... SPRING TIME/// it started getting boggy at higher revs, 7k+, when it started getting warmer out. Toyed with the idle adjust screw and nadda - needed to rejet the carb I was thinking, so I put the standard jet, which I think is #75, that came with the carb back in it and it wouldn't get the scoot above 10mph or 1/4 throttle. During the winter I decided I would rebuild the other engine with a 100cc bbk kit I got off ebay www.ebay.com/itm/150986136399?item=150986136399&viewitem=&vxp=mtrSince I had ordered the kit and it was just waiting on my lazy behind to slap it together I decided I'd just do it rather than tune my boggy system..... The 1p39qmb that was sitting around that I am restoring was a heck of a rebuild, had to remove the crankshaft in order to safely remove the wrist pin that had bent when the engine seized up - once removed the mount on the connecting rod had to be sanded smooth in order to put in new wrist pen. Smooth play, no resistance to movement. Tearing it down to this level was a good thing though because the kit I purchased had new oil pump and gear and gaskets that would require me to open it that far anyway. Also I ordered oil seal gaskets from scrappy since I would have it this open. The bearing on the crank has smooth play and is ok, the connecting rod would spin freely under the force of gravity by turning the crank in my hands, no snagging / friction. I put everything from the kit on the 1p39qmb and got her mounted but it wont start. I was using the carb I got during the winter at first with the 38mm performance air filter, #38 pilot and #88 main - nothing - put on the standard #75 main - nothing.The kit came with the standard (#75?) jet in the carb that was bundled with it and a #85 jet. I have tried the #75, #85 jet the kit came with and the #88 jet I got for the winter and still nothing. (tried em all on the new carb because I thought my winter carb may had gone bust) Long story short, new bbk on rebuilt engine isn't firing. Here is what all I have tested... --Compression (tested w/ el chepo Harbor Freight tester) is getting to 120 psi when I kick it ---electric start has been messed up for a while, been kick starting before engine swap for a couple months or so now - I think both the battery and starter motor are dead (starter works when removed and 12v is applied but not when it is hooked up to the engine - this is the case on both the non modded 139qmb and the modded to 100cc 1p39qmb) --I have spark, its there and strong blue --I smell gas inside the engine and through the new exhaust --valve clearance on the new head I mounted is .003" and .004" --cam is lined up with hole on top at top dead center / TDC --cam chain tensioner was removed and set to zero and then remounted so tension is ok --all wires are hooked up as they were pre engine swap (with some exceptions, pics to follow) --all vac lines and fuel lines are hooked up properly --I am using the orange AC CDI I have had for a while and know works, have not used the new one from the kit yet because I wanted to get it working with as many known working parts before I put in other parts that may / not work. I have standard black, orange and blue now - thinking of trying the standard black one to see it that one will work with this set up but I rode on the orange and know it fires well The only think I can think off is that the timing is off / the cam chain is off by one notch on either side or something. This thing should be starting if I have gas, air and spark right? That would just leave timing and compression - both of which look good...ish. My next goals are to get a new battery and starter so I can better test this engine. I am also looking to get a compression gauge with a better reputation that the HF one www.harborfreight.com/compression-test-kit-66216.html - any ideas on how to test the gauge to see it its working properly? Or can I jut get a new gauge, the hook ups function properly from what I can see. Sorry for the long post - I just want to be as descriptive as possible and see anyone noticed something I may have missed |
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). Anyhow, it came with a 1p39qmb. The 1p39qmb is the motor that seized and my mechanic replaced it with a used normal 139qmb. I was able to keep the old engine and have yet to open it up but my guess is that the piston/rings have dug a nice hold into the cylinder. I'm fairly certain, but won't know until I open the 1p39, that this was a 'secret 60' motor. Since the new normal 139qmb has been put on my speeds have dropped drastically. I use to cruise at 37-42 (measured using phone GPS speedometer app SpeedHUD) but now only achieve 32 on a good day, never 40 unless down a steep hill. What I would like to do is get a bbk, 72-80cc (not 100 - I hear that will overheat if going full throttle down a hill) and but that bbk on the old 1p39qmb that is sitting around. I dont know where to even start with this project, I've been looking around here for the answers but not too much on the 1p39 has come up. Will a bbk for the normal 139qmb work for the 1p39qmb? If i put a 72-80 bkk on the 1p39 what else should I upgrade... carborator? I know nothing about carbs btw, never messed with one. Will I need to mess with the variator or the exhaust....in short what bbk will I need for a 1p39qmb and what extras. 
. Any ways, whats been going on with my build...While riding my moped the other day the nut holding the variator came off and the the three prong kick start retainer banged around tearing up my plastic fan, snapped the weld holds the top part of my kick start idle gear together (pic describing break) and the three prongs that are on the start retainer also came off, luckily no damage to the belt or clutch, so I ordered a new variator assembly from ebay. To replace the kick start idle gear I used the face plate from the engine I had sitting around and just popped it on thinking that would do the trick. Wrong. I guess the starter bushing got lost somehow or wasn't there to begin with because when I went to start it up the starter motor made a squealing fiction like noise then killed my electrics, all my lights went out and nothing would happen when I did anything, horn and all. Busted out the volt reader and narrowed it down to the starter motor 
- removed it, tested it, and nothing would happen when power was applied (clamped positive to the wire and negative to the mounting area). Once the starter motor was removed the electrics would work when I would put my key in - dash and signal lights working ect. Rode it for two days (waiting on stater in mail) and now it won't kick start. It has gotten a LOT colder here recently. I live in the foothills of South Carolina (Greenville) and it has become winter this week - at night/early morning anyways. 30-40f at night and 75ish during the day.
