advantages of LC over AC 2t engines ?

[90GTVert]

I don't see how cooling system components alone could weigh in at anywhere near 100lbs for a scooter. I think I could use my Mustang's Be Cool radiator and still be under 100lbs added. I dunno what the capacity of the average cooling system is for a scoot, but a gallon of water is 8lbs. 2 gallons sounds like a crazy amount just looking at them, but even at that you'd hit 16lbs. I'd think even with a gallon, the water would weight about the same or more than the rest of the stuff.

[jmkjr72]

my dual rad set up doesnt even use a gallon


wet weight listed by yamaha of the air cooled zuma 94 kg
wet weight of the aerox liquid cooled listed by yamaha 97 kg
so thats 3 kg diffrence in weight

so we are talking less then 10lb in wet weight of the bikes
i doubt they have that much more weight savings on the frames and wheels of the aerox vrs the zuma

[skuttadawg]

Yes my Echarm weighs 286 lbs where m,y Jonway Magnum is 190 both with similar body styles and both with 16 inch wheels . As long as your not running lean and use a good synthetic 2T oil should not have a problem over heating or need to go to LC unless you simply opt to . An Aprilia SR50 is quite heavy compared to a AC 2T 50

[jmkjr72]

so you are saying that yamaha is wrong in there wet weights that they publish

[aeroxbud]

A direct comparison is the peugeot speedfight 3. They do this as a lc and ac model. The air cooled model weighs 97kg dry weight and the lc model weighs 100KG. The air cooled model comes with a lower spec rear drum and the lc a disc apart from that they are the same. Add 5kg for the cooling and it is a max 10kg more than the air cooled version.http://www.peugeotscooters.co.uk/peugeot-scooters-list.php?model_range=Speedfight 3
Most of the Euro sports scooters are about 100kg
yamaha aerox, 97kg
peugeot Speedfight 3,100kg
Piaggio NRG power, 99kg
Gilera Runner SP 50, 108kg

[bare]

Sighh this is an OLD notion. Was there fielding Yama racers for Yamaha Tr's (air cooled) then the 'switch over to LC Tz's. Proven differences betwixt Air and Liquid cooling was 5% mo' power with LC AFTER heat soak sapped the power of the Aircoolers (which were faster by the way, until that point).. usually by the 3rd or 4th lap.
Cooling type gave No advantage as to port timing possibles...
at least on Yama's Factory Race machines :0)
Frankly imo on a scoot, the added complexity of LC gives Small ..if any.. advantage (other than a bit of engine mechanical noise reduction) beyond making one... more attractive to Wimmin.. of course :-)
Consider that those 50 yr old men in Spandex on Multi thousand $ Carbon framed Bicycles have similar motives.
Harsh? perhaps, but more truth in that than anything else.

[jmkjr72]

Jan 5, 2013 12:58:06 GMT -5 bare said:

Sighh this is an OLD notion. Was there fielding Yama racers for Yamaha Tr's (air cooled) then the 'switch over to LC Tz's. Proven differences betwixt Air and Liquid cooling was 5% mo' power with LC AFTER heat soak sapped the power of the Aircoolers (which were faster by the way, until that point).. usually by the 3rd or 4th lap.
Cooling type gave No advantage as to port timing possibles...
at least on Yama's Factory Race machines :0)
Frankly imo on a scoot, the added complexity of LC gives Small ..if any.. advantage (other than a bit of engine mechanical noise reduction) beyond making one... more attractive to Wimmin.. of course :-)
Consider that those 50 yr old men in Spandex on Multi thousand $ Carbon framed Bicycles have similar motives.
Harsh? perhaps, but more truth in that than anything else.

and not a single one of those bikes were foreced air cooled
try talking apples to apples and not apple to oranges

if it doesnt make a bit of diffrence can you explane how the fastest scoots from the factory are the liquid cooled bikes

after kymco droped the lc from there super 9 justg changed the bore it became a dog

[190mech]

For all out racing,there is only 1 choice LC..Also an LC engine with the proper cooling setup will live longer on the street because of more even cylinder/piston temps,cooler mixture charges,closer cylinder to piston clearances..

BUT,for simplicity and mild tuned engine,driven for pleasure,a well set up AC motor is Great!!

[reveeen]

Cooling type gave No advantage as to port timing possibles...

You are wrong here. In these days of variable port timing a liquid cooled cylinder lends the dimensional stability required to implement moving "pieces" (ports) within the cylinder. This is how absolutely insane HP numbers are being seen on some dirt bikes. We are not seeing this with scooters yet, and it will likely be a toss-up between between this, and the extinction of 2 cycle motors, as to what occurs first in scooters.

In an "average situation" I find the kiss principal works best (Keep It Simple Stupid)

[waltinhawaii]

Well.... the last machine I rode that was air cooled was my Porsche. Forced air cooling works great, but there's a huge parasitic loss for the cooling fan. I never worried about that as much as the loss of power though; when my 2 strokes were cold it was easy to roost the front wheel up and once they got hot, fun was over. Taking them apart is a pain with liquid cooling, but my seat of the pants dyno told me it was well worth it to go LC. I'm in hawaii, so it's always really hot here, we don't get the nice cold weather like you guys do; I always envied you guys for the dense air you could get on a cold day. here, people put together night rides specifically, I think, because the bikes have more power at night in the cool air. In the older Porsche, I was always watching the temp gauge. But in any Japanese car, I only watch the temp gauge if I suspect the water pump needs changing. there's always that telltale rise in temp at the stoplight when the pump is turning slower so the coolant is not circulating as fast and temp rises. But, running tolerances are much closer and parts are much more thermally stable in LC environment, not to mention greater charge density due to cooler intake temps. Think of it as an intercooler for your engine block.