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Post by martyd on Dec 25, 2012 0:32:16 GMT -5
Just curious if there is an advantage of having the LC vs the AC 2t
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Post by Fox on Dec 25, 2012 2:51:35 GMT -5
A liquid cooled engine is actually air-cooled in that the air traveling through the radiator is what cools the liquid flowing through the system but the advantage is that the liquid flows through the inside of the metal of the engine rather than just having the air flow over the outside of the metal so you get more efficient heat-transfer through the radiator liquid ergo slightly better cooling. The liquid also flows through the inside of the radiator metal so again. More efficient.
The down-side of a water-cooled setup is more moving parts and more (stuff) which = more stuff to go wrong (water pump, radiator, fan, water hoses, thermostat, thermo-switch for the cooling fan, wiring etc...)
More is better to cool the engine, but more is not better to repair cause it can cost more and is more labor intensive.
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Post by jmkjr72 on Dec 25, 2012 10:04:03 GMT -5
you can run a more agressive port map and you can also run leaner
on my lc build i have no fan the waterpump replaced the cooling fan and sucks less power then the fan ever did its actualy a very simple water pump the only extra wire i have is for the temp gauge
an lc minerllie is not more labor intensive to repair infact there is less larbor as you do not have cooling shrouds to remove the only extra cost would be the antifreeze if you have to drain it out the waterpump is held on with a few of the bolts from the cooling shroud and replaces teh fan so if you had to replace the stator you would still have to remove the fan but to do that in an ac engine you need to remove the whole shroud on an lc you remove the 3 bolts that hold the water pump on and slide the pump out of the way
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Post by 90GTVert on Dec 25, 2012 10:15:42 GMT -5
My biggest concern with LC is the head seal. I'm so used to AC and being able to shave down the head and use or not use a gasket to get squish and compression where I want it. Can't really do that too well with an LC setup I suppose. Prob not a big deal on the 50-70cc, but with the stroker motors it seems something always needs "adjustments" to work well.
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Post by jmkjr72 on Dec 25, 2012 11:56:58 GMT -5
yeah you have to deck the bore as there is a groove in the head for the orings to seal the liquid so no messing with the actual head
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Post by martyd on Dec 25, 2012 12:35:42 GMT -5
Ok the engine I have now is the AC 2t minarelli I will be doing my first build in feb. And was contemplating converting it to a LC if there were alot of advantages. However after reading what everyone has posted I think that I will stick with the AC for now.
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Post by Fox on Dec 25, 2012 17:08:26 GMT -5
We haven't talked about weight either. Water has weight, as does the radiator, fan etc.. and you have to have the radiator out in the wind which causes a slight drag. Just sayin'...
The fan on a AC unit and shrouds don't weigh much. 1/2 pound maybe.
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Post by jmkjr72 on Dec 25, 2012 22:31:50 GMT -5
what about the huge drag the fan pulls on the engine that saps a ton of power
the rad is not going to cause any more drag then the body work you remove to mount it take mine i hung mine behind the front tire removed a bit of plastic to get them to hang there
when you run leaner you make more power and when you can run more agressive port maps you make even more power
you also have less power loss from heat as the engine runs cooler in the end
remeber that the largest part of your cooling on an air cooled engine comes from the incoming air fuel charge
so you have to run rich engouh to cool which makes it a lot richer then you realy need when your liquid cooled you jet for power as you dont have to worry about the cooling on the
if it was such a crock then how come the highest perfroming 2 stroke scoots are liquid cooled
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2tfvr
Scoot Member
Posts: 30
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Post by 2tfvr on Dec 25, 2012 23:48:35 GMT -5
I've always wanted to use an lc 2t scoot. What holds me back is the fact as was stated that more parts to worry or margin of error increases if you convert to one. Another to consider is weather mechanical or electric water pump. So an option is to get a scoot w/c is originally equipped (expensive). Power is better. But I've seen and read builds in this forum that inspires me a lot that my own jog can go WOT on long stretches as long as well tuned. As said - Nothing is impossible, it just cost more. ;D
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Post by 90GTVert on Dec 26, 2012 6:56:07 GMT -5
Regarding the poll question, I think it depends exactly what you are looking for. If you don't have to have the absolute fastest, AC is fine. I have a lot of fun with my AC scoots. I definitely see some really nasty LC setups though, and from what I've heard of the LC builds here, if LC and AC are the same otherwise, the LC always wins. For a sport level build, I see no problem at all with AC. If I were going to spend the money to go race/high end, I'd prefer to go with LC. Once you get to the high end stuff, you'll need the experience more for tuning (narrow powerband, PITA) than you will for setting up the LC stuff. The hardest thing about LC setup that will require experience will prob be trying to mount a radiator to a scoot with no radiator originally.
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Post by martyd on Dec 26, 2012 17:32:11 GMT -5
Im looking for something in the 12-15 hp range and I really like the Stage6 parts
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Post by aeroxbud on Dec 26, 2012 17:41:07 GMT -5
I had seen a dyno graph a while ago on the air cooled zip and the difference was about 1bhp with the fan removed. I had a look but cant find the link.
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Post by martyd on Dec 26, 2012 20:52:43 GMT -5
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Post by skuttadawg on Dec 29, 2012 0:21:19 GMT -5
LC would be heavier as my Echarm is 100lbs heavy than Jonway Rock Thunder
Heat helps up to a point but a cooler engine often lasts longer
Not all scooters have radiator mounts
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Post by martyd on Dec 29, 2012 2:59:52 GMT -5
I really wouldn't think all the parts + the coolant would weigh over 10lbs max, but i could be wrong
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