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Post by Jwhood on Jan 13, 2013 1:25:50 GMT -5
So ive been thinking if this is even an option,scrappy has a jog 100 for about $400 i wanted to get some insight on if this will work,and how much modding will be involved,i want to make this scoot a sleeper and have it running for the start of spring..any help or insight on this would be great!!! Attachments:
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Post by ryan on Jan 13, 2013 2:03:25 GMT -5
first off i can give you a site to some engines they're actually sent with a 52mm bore and if you ask them to deduct the carb thats sent you'll get it shipped and total for about 380
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Post by kevin55950 on Jan 13, 2013 4:59:25 GMT -5
If your TGB has a Morini engine there will be a lot of work to fit a Minarelli engine. ( all TGB 50cc 2 stroke are having a Morini engine where I live). Different wheel splines, different engine mount, different wiring. TGB have different ''generation'' , some you'll need to buy a new wheel for the minarelli engine case, some not. But the work might be not way too hard, I've never tried personally to swap a minarelli engine on a TGB scooter, but my Zuma wheel wasn't fitting my friend's TGB engine case. Engine mounts are on the top but at a different place, it might be a problem for the shock absorber also. I don't know if it is possible to fit a Minarelli ignition with the TGB wiring. If someone you know has a Minarelli engine case, try to bolt it on your scooter to see what modification you'll have to do and if it seems do-able for you.
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Post by Jwhood on Jan 13, 2013 21:35:42 GMT -5
If i could find a good used jog 100cc wiring harness(complete wiring) i could go that route,and i got a good friend that can do the engine mount relocation for a few $$(professional welder) i think it wouldnt be that difficult???
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Post by kevin55950 on Jan 14, 2013 5:02:08 GMT -5
It can be done, yes. Guys in Québec are swapping Piaggio or minarelli horizontal scooter engine on older model Zuma with vertical minarelli engine, and the engine mounts are at a way different position on these 3 engines.
If you can find any complete wiring harness from a Chinese scooter with minarelli engine it will be okay, they are almost the same for all Chinese minarelli 2 stroke horizontal, some minor difference but you'll have to modify the wiring anyway for your gauges, lights, etc. Don't take e-ton Beamer ones because they are AC fired and you'll need to do more work. For the engine mount, do it as your friend think it's the best way to do it.
The best way to start will be, as I told before, to find someone that has a engine case like you are looking for (any minarelli horizontal long case, 50cc or 90/100cc) to see the work you'll have to do before spending $400 or more on an engine. You don't have to make it run, just see if your rear wheel will fit the engine and if the engine mount and shock are near to fit and what modifications you'll have to do to fit your 100cc engine.
If the work seems do-able for you and your friend, now it will be the time to buy the wiring, the engine and a rear wheel if you need one.
By looking at my friend's TGB, you might have to make the engine mount a little longer. TGB engine are having the engine mounts over the intake pipe and the Jog 100 one, the engine mount is at the rear of the intake pipe. For the engine mount width, it might be different I'm not sure about it.
If you want to use it on the street, it is a better idea to keep the smooth engine mount and add another bracket if needed than welding brackets directly on the frame, as this engine mount has rubber bushings to prevent engine vibration from getting to the frame.
Do not forget that the Minarelli engine has an intake pipe facing forward (the airbox is on the side of the cylinder) and your TGB has an intake facing backwards ( your airbox is on the engine case before the shock). Rear-facing intakes are available for Minarelli engine but it will cost you more.
Did you have the carburetor with your 100cc engine? Don't use your TGB carburetor on a 100cc engine, it will be really hard to adjust. If you don't have the carburetor with the engine, it might be a good idea to use a 19mm carburetor. You can find some cheap ( I've seen some 19mm carburetor at $40 or less on eBay).
That's pretty much what you'll have to do, check your gas cable (single or dual wire) and if the jog 100 engine you're looking for has a variable oil pump you'll need a dual cable. Your tgb exhaust won't fit the jog 100 engine. Look at the 90GTVert Project 90 thread to see which pipe will be the best for your build.
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Post by Jwhood on Jan 14, 2013 17:27:44 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info on this im gonna look for a used broke engine and do a mock up to see how it will work,,ill post pics when i start project thanks again!!!!"
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Post by kevin55950 on Jan 14, 2013 20:10:01 GMT -5
That's welcome! Your pictures will be appreciate as there is a lot of TGB scooters where I live and performance parts for the Morini engine are limited. There is WAY more performance parts for minarelli ( and as I see, the minarelli engine ( like your jog 100) are also more reliable)
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Post by Jwhood on Jan 14, 2013 22:38:26 GMT -5
I know ive had nothing but issuez with my tgb,thats y im going the other direction even if it cost alot to do it
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Post by kevin55950 on Jan 15, 2013 15:08:47 GMT -5
Minarelli parts are way cheaper than TGB ones and they're easier to find. That's a kind of investment, and your scooter will be unique.
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Post by Jwhood on Jan 15, 2013 23:55:40 GMT -5
Heck yeah,my brother has 3 tgb and all run great never had any issues it pisses me off,i was looking at the mount on those jog 100s whats the factory size rim for them cant find no info,im gonna take all plastics off and re paint them black im blacking whole bike out its gonna look completely different i jaye those big ass tires on the keywest i want some nice 12 inch rim with street profile tires,off topic ive been looking at a yellow madass 50cc guy is selling for cheap there pretty nice looking i might pick that up to cause tax time is coming and im getting a nice chink back from uncle sam so $$ aint a thing right now and the ole lady is good with so im going all out!!!
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Post by skuttadawg on Jan 16, 2013 1:41:47 GMT -5
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Post by kevin55950 on Jan 16, 2013 5:33:25 GMT -5
I tried those BBK and they're less powerful than original 50cc one's. We tried everything to make them perform well... at least we tried... max speed 30 MPH when it was running. TGB engines are having a weak crankshaft, the engine vibrates a lot, I installed a 70cc Stage6 BBK on my other friend's TGB and the engine makes more power ( less than there will be on a Minarelli) but we aren't sure the crankshaft will last. Factory rims are 10 inches I think, or 12 inches or some scooters. Both are same diameter with tire ( 10in. has thick tires and 12 inches are having low profile). This jog 100 engine is like the 50cc one's but with a bigger bore and longer stroke. Bigger boss drive size also. The TGB dealer in my city tried to make them more powerful, they have trained personnel and they can't make a TGB run well on a BBK. Those have tiny reed valves that needs the case to be machined and fitted for an expensive Polini BigValve intake kit. They need a stonger crankshaft and not a lot of companies are making them, and they're not always fitting. We brought parts that were supposed to fit the TGB but they were not. 47mm bore on tgb are fitting tight and they make 65cc's not 70cc. 46mm seems a more reasonable limit, but crankshaft sometimes doesn't even handle a performance exhaust. That's why it seems a better idea to fit a Minarelli engine. Picures of the TGB we modified: With the stage6 BBK TGB 303R
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Post by Jwhood on Jan 17, 2013 2:41:33 GMT -5
Whats your speed (top) on the stage 6 bbk?? I was gonna go that route but i started looking at my options on custom fitting a minni or a jog,another thing is that the minni`s have the starter on top i would just to a starter delete to give me more room and the shock mount is farther back on the minni or jog cases so i would have to get a longer shock or custom fab something,i m thinking the head on the minni will hit because of clearance issues,im gonna go check out a local junk yard and see if i can find a used jog or minni to mock up to see all what i have to buy parts wise and see how much work its gonna take to complete the project!!!!!
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Post by kevin55950 on Jan 17, 2013 19:10:13 GMT -5
49 mph on the speedometer. The scooter has a really short gearing and I didn't found any gear kit to make it faster. But there is a lot of vibration, at the second ring change we'll have to change the crankshaft bearings and maybe the crankshaft. We brought a Naraku variator for it ( that generally give a better top speed) but it doesn't fit and it is supposed to. We'll need to machine the guide pin of the variator because of the crankshaft shape on the variator side (the guide pin inside diameter is too small at one place and it doesn't get in as far as it should). The best for it was the 50cc Stage6 MKI, it gave merely as much power as the BBK and it vibrate less, but vibration is there. Ring changes at 1500 miles is the problem of those single ring piston engines. With a performance pipe, vibration is awful with the 50cc or the BBK from Stage6.
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Post by Jwhood on Jan 17, 2013 21:35:07 GMT -5
Tell me about the vibration mine is crazy with factory head and an mrp pipe i averaged about 43 mph it seemed to go better with stock pipe,i was getting about 47mph with stock pipe
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