No Start

[Goosey]

Background, tree landed on scooter shed, impact mainly on the seat of the 150cc Baron. Took her for a ride, after 30 miles it sputtered and died. Hit "start" and get nothing. No click, nothing. I found a loose wire to the coil, reconnected that and it fired right up.
Today, I pulled the wires to the coil, to do a better job on the connectors, reconnected, and again, nothing. #1@*
I am figuring, coil, or solenoid/relay ?. I probably needed a new relay anyway, it would sometimes give me a click and no start before. Would it give me "nothing" if it died? If the coil was goofy, it would get no spark and sputter out, would the solenoid do the same? I also ordered a new coil w/performance CDI cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190382698325 the price for the pair wasn't too much more than the price of one. And only a state away. Everything looks ok, no cracks, or pinched parts, just invisable gremlins.

[90GTVert]

The solenoid shouldn't affect spark. It should only be controlling the starter. You can test the solenoid easy. Just cross the terminals with a screwdriver to make a connection and your starter should kick over.

[Goosey]

K, so the solenoid shouldn't be the issue, and it wouldn't cause the scoot to die on the road. Will test that though. Rain, rain, go away....wish I had a shed today

So "if" I get it to fire up by crossing the terminals, and it runs, then I'm looking at the wires to/or the switch.

[Goosey]

Crossed the poles on the solenoid, fired and ran. I couldn't find any more loose wireswith the limited view I had. Kill switch works. Start button does nothing. I will have to get a better look on a dry day when I can pull all the plastic off. Need dry weather to get going on the new shed. Saturday wasted. Any other thoughts are welcome.

[90GTVert]

Sounds like you are on the right track. Something's gotta be loose or there's a bad connection somewhere for such an intermittent issue. Make sure the plug wire is tight to the coil and the cap and make sure the cap is in good condition.

[Goosey]

Wireing is a %#@$!

Anyhow, not the solenoid, and have a new plug wire coming (stock should be changed out anyway). Though since it runs well when started, probably not plug or coil related.
The sputter and death on the road were probably related to the wire to the coil. I think it's 2 different problems. Tree gremlins.
Be awhile before I can play in the guts. Gotta get the shed up so I can open her up and still walk away when I want to throw something at it.

[Fox]

Goosey,

If the starter works when you crossed the relay poles with a screwdriver but won't work with the start button then that points to a bad relay or bad wiring between the relay and the start button. The screwdriver bypasses the relay.

You see, The relay is not a solenoid. It's a heavy duty switch. That's all it is. The starter motor requires more amps to turn it that that little start button can handle. The button and the little wires would melt so the start button trips the relay which sends current through the big red positive wire directly to the starter motor.

When you touched the driver across you created your own bridge for the current to flow across the poles and the starter motor turned. You bypassed the relay altogether. The fact that the starter worked doesn't mean the relay is good. It means there's a problem with the start button wiring or the relay is bad. When a relay starts going bad it will work intermittently for a while, then it'll just click or do nothing at all.

I think you should get one and try it and if it doesn't fix the issue you'll have it for when you need it. And you WILL need it eventually.

They're cheap here:
www.pccmotor.com/relay-solenoid-honda-yamaha-dirt-bike-atv-crf50-5505001.html

PS: A solenoid is an electro-mechanical actuator that turns electricity into kinetic energy. A pinball flipper is actuated with a solenoid. It's a rod inside a coil. The valves that turn the water on and off on your washing machine are controlled by solenoids.

Here's a solenoid:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0_aje6u0tQ

[Goosey]

Thanks , I had ordered one just in case. Apparently it had given me trouble in the past, maybe it did finaly just go.(I just hadn't known what it was) Should be here within the week. That I can change without much hastle. I paid a bit more for it though, 19.95 w/shipping I'll save myself the aggravation of playing in the wires til I've tried the new relay then.

When you touched the driver across you created your own bridge for the current to flow across the poles

I get it now.
I thought it was a "relay" then I see it reffered to as solenoid, and then I think I'm confusing the blinker relay with the relay...LOL, I'm terrible with names of any kind as it is...

[90GTVert]

Good info Dave. Sorry, correct or not the terms starter solenoid and starter relay are used very interchangeably. Actual starter solenoids are used to move the gears of a starter into contact with the flywheel or flexplate to turn the engine over and switch on current to the starter motor. That said, walk into Autozone and ask for a starter solenoid and you'll get the relay you actually want. ;D lol

[Fox]

Yeah people also call scooters "mopeds" all the time and lots of people still think the mixture screw on the carb affects the main jet and that the auto-enricher unit is a "Choke"

Solenoid used to engage starter motor gear.

[Goosey]

walk into Autozone and ask for a starter solenoid and you'll get the relay you actually want.

I could have gone to Autozone? $#%@, what specificaly should I ask for?

[90GTVert]

Oh, no. Sorry. I was speaking generally when you work on cars or something. Well... you could actually. You could get a big heavy duty starter relay for a car... but it's overkill and you won't be able to just plug in the harness. It'll have a spot for a switching signal and either a post for ground or need to be chassis grounded so you'd have to wire the harness that goes to the stock relay to serve those two tasks. Unless you are in a big hurry, it's easier just to swap in a stock replacement.

[Goosey]

LOL, ok I know the neighbor guy took one out of a car and put it in his scooter last week, havn't talked to him since to see how that went K then, waiting on the relay.

[dar1]

i just bought a new 2008 150cc from superior power sports got it thursday it died on saturday oil leaking from crank case.changed oil and plug.now wont start dont know what to do

[Goosey]

i just bought a new 2008 150cc from superior power sports got it thursday it died on saturday oil leaking from crank case.changed oil and plug.now wont start dont know what to do

Hi, and welcome. First you need to start a new thread with your problem, so that the help will be specific to your problem. Give as much information as you can. What is the make of your scoot, how many miles on it. Was the leak from a missing screw, or from a leaky gasket? Gear oil or regular oil? Did you check fluid levals before you ran it? You have a place for Gear oil, and a seperate place for the standard oil. Won't start is too vague...is it turning over, is there no sound at all, as much info as you can give will help.