electric start issue....again...

[stoop]

so i never fixed it in the first place, but im ggetting sick of kick starting my scooter all the time

i followed the tutorial on no start trouble shooting, and im geting stuck at the break light part

i have no brake lights still, but i have power from each one when it is pressed down (or i guess unpressed seeing as thats how the brake switchs work)

i have power to my starter button, i dont have a kill switch, everything is grounded...

im at another lose.

any input would be appreciated

[Fox]

Step 1) Make sure the fuse next to the battery is not blown. Blown fuse = no start.

Step 2) Find the starter relay and touch something metal like a wrench between the two brass colored bolts on the relay. It will spark a little. Don't worry about it! The starter should turn even with the key off while you are crossing the poles on the relay with the wrench. If it doesn't then there's a problem with the wiring or the starter motor itself. If the starter does turn with the wrench on the relay then move on to step 3.

Step 3) Un-plug the small connector from the relay and test for 12 volts from the wiring harness side of the plug connector while pressing the start button. (Key on). If you get voltage then replace the relay. No voltage and again, there's a wiring problem.

The fuse is in a holder by the battery:


The relay looks like this and is usually located on the frame under the seat.

[stoop]

Sept 18, 2010 17:34:28 GMT -5 Fox said:

Step 1) Make sure the fuse next to the battery is not blown. Blown fuse = no start.

Step 2) Find the starter relay and touch something metal like a wrench between the two brass colored bolts on the relay. It will spark a little. Don't worry about it! The starter should turn even with the key off while you are crossing the poles on the relay with the wrench. If it doesn't then there's a problem with the wiring or the starter motor itself. If the starter does turn with the wrench on the relay then move on to step 3.

Step 3) Un-plug the small connector from the relay and test for 12 volts from the wiring harness side of the plug connector while pressing the start button. (Key on). If you get voltage then replace the relay. No voltage and again, there's a wiring problem.

ok ive done all this part. and when u say wiring harness side ofthe plug connector, i assume u mean the one coming from the front of the scooter, not the one going to the relay.

yes it sparks and turns over when i bypass the relay, but i cannot get it to turnover with the push start.

all the wires are connected, and i took apart most of the plastic to check.

i still dont have a brake light (when either brake is pressed) and im guessing that has something to do with my no start problem, as in the tutorial i got stuck inbetween a step because my problem was not assessed.

[stoop]

ok i went back out to recheck, and i got no charge on the wiring harness side of the plug connector, so im guessing its a wiring problem

i know so far that, the brake switches send a signal to the starter switch, and the brake lights, and im getting no brake light on deployment.

all wires to both brake switches are correct, as are the actually starter switch buttons.

[90GTVert]

Is the brake light bulb bad? You said you have power to the starter button, and usually the starter button is after the brake switches.

Sept 18, 2010 17:52:44 GMT -5 stoop said:

ok i went back out to recheck, and i got no charge on the wiring harness side of the plug connector, so im guessing its a wiring problem

So you're saying there's no power to the starter relay or where exactly?

[stoop]

Sept 18, 2010 17:58:34 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

Is the brake light bulb bad? You said you have power to the starter button, and usually the starter button is after the brake switches.

So you're saying there's no power to the starter relay or where exactly?

brak light bulb is not bad, i just rechecked that as well, it still has both fillaments still intact.

and yes, i was talkinga bout the wiring harness to the relay, i have no power in either wires.

[Fox]

Sept 18, 2010 18:18:09 GMT -5 stoop said:

and yes, i was talkinga bout the wiring harness to the relay, i have no power in either wires.

That's the issue then. Try touching the negative test lead to the frame and then test for voltage on both terminals of the plug on the wiring harness side. If you get voltage on one and not the other then it's a bad ground. If you get no voltage on either then it's a bad hot. You can find the hot on the start button and run a new hot to the relay.

Or, You can make a poor-man"s fix by running a heavy duty switch to the inside of the seat tub that does the same thing as the wrench. You open the seat, flip the switch and when the engine starts you flip the switch to off. Voila! Having it under the seat will prevent people from screwing with it. I did it to an old scooter I had while I waited for a new relay. I used a household light switch. Just disconnect the big wires from the relay and connect them to the switch and BAM! You have electric start. You may have to lengthen the wires but that's easy.

[stoop]

Sept 18, 2010 18:32:26 GMT -5 Fox said:

Sept 18, 2010 18:18:09 GMT -5 stoop said:

and yes, i was talkinga bout the wiring harness to the relay, i have no power in either wires.

That's the issue then. Try touching the negative test lead to the frame and then test for voltage on both terminals of the plug on the wiring harness side. If you get voltage on one and not the other then it's a bad ground. If you get no voltage on either then it's a bad hot. You can find the hot on the start button and run a new hot to the relay.

Or, You can make a poor-man"s fix by running a heavy duty switch to the inside of the seat tub that does the same thing as the wrench. You open the seat, flip the switch and when the engine starts you flip the switch to off. Voila! Having it under the seat will prevent people from screwing with it. I did it to an old scooter I had while I waited for a new relay. I used a household light switch. Just disconnect the big wires from the relay and connect them to the switch and BAM! You have electric start. You may have to lengthen the wires but that's easy.

i thank you a buch for that idea, i had a similar idea, just executed way wrong. i took the switch from the parts roketa i had, and the wiring harness from the roketa to the relay, and connected them, as sort of a "snap into the connector, and hope it starts when i click the button" attemp.

i am going to go try the light switch idea, as i have extra light switches lying around in my garage. i appreciate the idea alot, it makes sence and you are rght.... very easy...

[Fox]

Yeah it'll work. If you do have to lengthen the wires make sure to use the same gauge as whats there. Lot of amps go through there. It may not be ideal but oh well... Not sure how long the switch will last either. They aren't made for DC current so you may have to change it from time to time.

[stoop]

Sept 18, 2010 19:26:39 GMT -5 Fox said:

Yeah it'll work. If you do have to lengthen the wires make sure to use the same gauge as whats there. Lot of amps go through there. It may not be ideal but oh well... Not sure how long the switch will last either. They aren't made for DC current so you may have to change it from time to time.

do i need to use a specific kind of light switch? i found a basic light switch and hooked it up, and it turned over a few times, but no start, and then stopped working for a bit.

do i need to get an actuall "heavy duty" light switch?

[Fox]

I used a regular switch. It was brand new though. Maybe that particular switch is faulty try another one. Maybe the battery is low from all the screwing around you've been doing?

[stoop]

:welcome:

Sept 18, 2010 19:38:52 GMT -5 Fox said:

I used a regular switch. It was brand new though. Maybe that particular switch is faulty try another one. Maybe the battery is low from all the screwing around you've been doing?

it does not matter which wires goes to whic side correct?

do i still need to ground it to the frame?

[Fox]

No, you just run the two large wires to the switch. The light switch becomes the relay. Don't over-think it. You are simply running the + side of the battery to the starter with a switch in between.

FYI, the relay is simply a remotely operated switch designed to handle the current. When the relay closes it passes current directly from the battery to the starter. The starter is grounded because its made of metal and bolted to the engine. The start button would melt with all that amperage so they use a relay.

[stoop]

Sept 18, 2010 20:03:06 GMT -5 Fox said:

No, you just run the two large wires to the switch. The light switch becomes the relay. Don't over-think it. You are simply running the + side of the battery to the starter with a switch in between.

FYI, the relay is simply a remotely operated switch designed to handle the current. When the relay closes it passes current directly from the battery to the starter. The starter is grounded because its made of metal and bolted to the engine. The start button would melt with all that amperage so they use a relay.

i get it. not over thought.

it works!

i kick started it and let it run for 5mins or so, turned it off, now the switch works perfectly.

you were correct i guess, overused the battery.

where/how did u mount it? i simply ran it through the carb entry int he bottom of my seat box, and put the cover over it so that it stays shut and the switch is just kinda hanging off too the back. i mean it works, but it there is an easy way to mount this, pics or info would be cool lol

[stoop]

and thanks again fox, very nice information already, and i know have an electic start again, jerry rigged or not