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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 23:05:39 GMT -5
Yes, I saw the plug photos but, they do not show the ceramic insulator which is what you want to look at for color. The color of the threads means nothing as it is screwed into the head. I see now that the scoot is modified a bit so, maybe not as bad rich as I thought. I am running a #32 pilot jet and it works great for my set up. I have no idea what pilot jet comes in a 20 mm carb. You did say it was running well though..until...which made me think of the plug as a possibility.
Bill
PS I was able to zoom in on the pics and see just a bit of the insulator and...yes it is rich but I have to agree it does not look extreme rich to me.
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Post by astray on Oct 1, 2015 0:08:12 GMT -5
So I'm pretty sure I have compression, after a few pumps of the kick start it gets really difficult to push it down, like I can't physically do it without putting my weight behind it using my foot. I'll be looking at the valves tomorrow after class, I've got a friend's car to borrow in the meantime.
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Post by astray on Oct 1, 2015 2:26:53 GMT -5
Just noticed something that seems like it could be a problem (probably not the problem that I'm having but a problem none the less). My air filter appeared to have a small amount of gasoline leaking from it. The way I have it set up the air filter is elevated less than the carb currently because I am not a smart person so I think the gas in the carb is just back flowing into the air filter because of this. Any idea if this is the case if would it cause any major issues?
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Post by paulmohr on Oct 1, 2015 9:08:50 GMT -5
The carb might leak if the float is adjusted wrong or stuck. Shouldn't have anything to do with how your filter is mounted though. As long as the carb itself is level.
I say if you are going to install a BBK just rip it apart and trouble shoot it that way. I don't see the point in doing a bunch of checks and adjustments that you will just have to repeat after the rebuild.
When you pull the engine apart you will have the head off, so you can check the valves then. Fox has a good thread on how to check the valves with the head off. You will also have to re set the timing chain adjuster. And you will have to re set the timing and adjust the valves again. You will also have to tune the carb and possibly tune the CVT. So basically everything you are going to check now will have to be checked/adjusted after or during the rebuild. Or will be fixed by doing the rebuild, like say bad rings.
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Post by astray on Oct 1, 2015 9:31:30 GMT -5
The carb definitely has a bit of a downward angled slope because of how it's settled in the scooter. I tilted the air filter up and gas went back into the line. And I agree that during the rebuild everything would be fixed in one go but I'd like to have it working in the meantime if possible so I don't have to borrow a friend's car for too long. Currently I'm waiting for parts for my car to redo the belts (drive and timing) so I have some form of reliable transportation during each of the transportations downtime.
Also a quick question for doing the BBK upgrade. Is it something I can without discounting the engine entirely from the scooter? I really don't want the extra headache of having to that I'd I can avoid it. It's certainly make the upgrade a lot easier to do.
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Post by ams417 on Oct 1, 2015 11:21:18 GMT -5
It's can be done on most scooters without removing the engine. I find its much easier to do with the engine out though. I pull the carb off and leave the cables attached, unplug the electrical connections and pull one bolt to get mine out. Once you have the engine off you don't have to lay on the floor, or work around things. I just put the engine on my table and have at it. Your choice though.
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Post by Fox on Oct 1, 2015 12:50:38 GMT -5
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Post by astray on Oct 1, 2015 13:16:18 GMT -5
I have no problems laying on the ground and money and space are both tight right now so I'm not gonna do that table idea.
Anyways going back to the topic at hand, I removed the air filter from the carb and a lot of gas came out of the carb and air filter that it was leaking into. The carb was quite flooded, I used quite a bit of paper towels to clean up the spilled gas. There also wasn't really any coming out of the float bowl drain either which is really concerning since I figured that's where any excess gas would go. Could this have been caused by me pumping the kick starter without actually starting the scooter or is there a problem with the carb?
Also jet size is #88
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Post by ams417 on Oct 1, 2015 13:17:38 GMT -5
I'd love to have that. I have the tools and the cash, just not the room. I can't talk my wife into parking outside. That was the compromise when I gave up my spot in the garage. I filled it with two wheeled fun cycles, I even had to haul my Seadoo up to the barn at the lake house. The solution is a bigger garage I guess?
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 1, 2015 14:22:03 GMT -5
Turning the engine over with the kick starter should not have caused fuel to be in your air filter. It sounds like your float height is too high, maybe stuck. At very least I'd check the float height. If the fuel level gets too high from an improper float setting, it will make the engine run rich and can make fuel overflow.
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Post by Fox on Oct 1, 2015 14:33:52 GMT -5
I have been around here for a while and from what I have read many times an #88 jet is borderline too small for a free-flow aftermarket air filter and it sure sounds like you opened up the air flow to the max so you could have been running too lean for a while which will cause damage to the top end. If you have a burnt or tight intake valve then you can actually get a gas spray out of the carb throat when the engine is running.
Also, you haven't said what you have tried or done to this point. Have you checked or adjusted the valves? It doesn't take a feeler gauge to check for a tight valve and also, years ago it was determined that a strip of aluminum from a soda can mic's out to .003-.004 so it's well within the range of what is acceptable for valve clearance. Common sense dictates that any play at all, even .001 is better than no play.
The drain on the carb bowl only drains if you open the drain screw. There is an overflow port on the side of the carburetor just above the mixture screw for when the float fails to shut off the fuel flow. It has an L shaped rubber tube on it
The table idea was for ams417. See, this is a discussion forum and sometimes the discussion will take a detour for a minute. He mentioned laying on the floor and I responded. If that isn't to your liking well I'm sorry but it happens here.
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Post by Fox on Oct 1, 2015 14:36:55 GMT -5
Turning the engine over with the kick starter should not have caused fuel to be in your air filter. It sounds like your float height is too high, maybe stuck. At very least I'd check the float height. If the fuel level gets too high from an improper float setting, it will make the engine run rich and can make fuel overflow. You know Brent, the plug pics read lean to me. What do you see?
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Post by astray on Oct 1, 2015 14:49:15 GMT -5
I have been around here for a while and from what I have read many times an #88 jet is borderline too small for a free-flow aftermarket air filter and it sure sounds like you opened up the air flow to the max so you could have been running too lean for a while which will cause damage to the top end. If you have a burnt or tight intake valve then you can actually get a gas spray out of the carb throat when the engine is running. Also, you haven't said what you have tried or done to this point. Have you checked or adjusted the valves? It doesn't take a feeler gauge to check for a tight valve and also, years ago it was determined that a strip of aluminum from a soda can mic's out to .003-.004 so it's well within the range of what is acceptable for valve clearance. Common sense dictates that any play at all, even .001 is better than no play. The drain on the carb bowl only drains if you open the drain screw. There is an overflow port on the side of the carburetor just above the mixture screw for when the float fails to shut off the fuel flow. It has an L shaped rubber tube on it The table idea was for ams417. See, this is a discussion forum and sometimes the discussion will take a detour for a minute. He mentioned laying on the floor and I responded. If that isn't to your liking well I'm sorry but it happens here. First sorry if I came off as not caring about the table, I actually thought the idea was brought up for me and I was just declining it as something I wasn't able to do so my apologies for misreading. Anyways, I haven't had much of opportunity to do anything yet since I've been pretty busy yesterday and today with school and I've pretty much just been brainstorming based on what I've observed. I'll probably take a few pictures for you guys before I really start doing anything too crazy as I'm still very new to working on scooters and with motors in general and want to have a pretty good idea before actually starting any real work. As for the drain screw on the float I unscrewed it entirely to drain gas from it but there was very little coming out so then I took off the air filter because there was still a drip coming from it and that's when a lot of gas came out from the carb and air filter.
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 1, 2015 15:44:20 GMT -5
You know Brent, the plug pics read lean to me. What do you see? Looked glossy to me, as in perhaps wet/damp/rich. I'd expect a lean reading with an 88 and an open filter is a good possibility, but there seems to be an abundance of fuel in places it shouldn't be. My thoughts from that are either it's excessively rich and overflowing fuel for a reason like the float height, or it's spitting fuel the wrong way because of a leaky valve or possibly timing. Best starting points based on those thoughts are the float check and valve checks that have been mentioned.
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Post by astray on Oct 3, 2015 18:50:18 GMT -5
Here's another picture that might give some more clues into what's going on. drive.google.com/file/d/1q6yCyHcNgfXYTZuaysrySyKwDMAwr_nL5w/view?usp=sharingThe valve cover seems to have a lot of gas coming out of the relief valve or whatever it's called but I'm not sure if that's normal or not, but I don't think it is because it connects to the air filter connector and that might be where all the gas is coming from in the air filter.
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