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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 11, 2016 2:05:08 GMT -5
The electric choke is not necessarily needed to start. My scoot starts fine without it. I hate the damn things. My scoot would flood on warm starts because the electric enrichment circuit would cool off faster than the engine. I had a primer bulb to help start if necessary. I have never needed it and it is currently disconnected. My inclination would be the old lines. You know there are going to be cracks and breaks in the cheapest plastic tubing they could get. The rubber compounds used on these things are beyond belief. A thorough inspection should be the first thing done.
It seems to me that many of these scoots have silly electrical designs. Kind of what they can wire up the fastest with the cheapest wiring harness they can find being the operative 'design' mode. My 2012 scoot does not have a center stand safety switch but it does not have a kickstand either. It is a reverse trike and stands upright on it's own.
I wish I did live closer. It would not be hard to whip up a schematic with a theory of operations. There should be someone around you skilled in the dark electrical arts that could help. Not only for you, but the community.
I have an old '78 Ford F250 that does not have any interlocks. I have an old Case 446 'garden' tractor without any interlocks also. It seems operators were generally smarter or more able back in the old days. Accidents did occur though, -but then accidents still happen even with interlocks. Operators should still think.
Vehicles and equipment today should come with books called "Operating for Dummies" like the infamous computer books.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 11, 2016 6:45:12 GMT -5
The electric choke is not necessarily needed to start. My scoot starts fine without it. I hate the damn things. My scoot would flood on warm starts because the electric enrichment circuit would cool off faster than the engine. I had a primer bulb to help start if necessary. I have never needed it and it is currently disconnected. My inclination would be the old lines. You know there are going to be cracks and breaks in the cheapest plastic tubing they could get. The rubber compounds used on these things are beyond belief. A thorough inspection should be the first thing done. It seems to me that many of these scoots have silly electrical designs. Kind of what they can wire up the fastest with the cheapest wiring harness they can find being the operative 'design' mode. My 2012 scoot does not have a center stand safety switch but it does not have a kickstand either. It is a reverse trike and stands upright on it's own. I wish I did live closer. It would not be hard to whip up a schematic with a theory of operations. There should be someone around you skilled in the dark electrical arts that could help. Not only for you, but the community. I have an old '78 Ford F250 that does not have any interlocks. I have an old Case 446 'garden' tractor without any interlocks also. It seems operators were generally smarter or more able back in the old days. Accidents did occur though, -but then accidents still happen even with interlocks. Operators should still think. Vehicles and equipment today should come with books called "Operating for Dummies" like the infamous computer books. I would prefer a manual choke, I've thought about wiring in a momentary switch to enable the electric choke as needed. I repair small power equipment on the side and dirty carbs are a prime failure point. A manual choke helps diagnose clogged jets. The new mowers don't allow mixture adjustments and they have automatic chokes. Ah, old vehicles, I have a 1968 Fiat Coupe in my garage, It's so simple it doesn't even have an oil filter. I owned a Case 220 years ago, nice hydro drive system. I now have three Bolens tractors, 1966 1050, 1969 1220, and a 1969 1220 with a Briggs 16HP boxer engine transplant. The Briggs transplant was an interesting project, it's wider and longer than the Tecumseh it replaced. I'm old enough to remember when these tractors were introduced. I'm trying to document all of the little things I find on these since I haven't found anything via google. Abat sold them in Europe as the Aspes Sirio 50 Hybrid. Here's a video of it Aspes Hybrid Not much information on that brand either.
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 11, 2016 18:06:43 GMT -5
A manual choke is the way to go. There are several threads here on conversions.
The electric enrichment circuit works like a thermostat with a wax capsule heated by electricity that unfortunately for electric control turns OFF fuel flow rather than turning it ON. An electric switch to control the valve would allow enrichment fuel to flow all the time the switch was off. Turning the switch ON would -slowly- close off the fuel flow.
The newer scoot carbs are sealed also but clever people around there have devised ways to defeat some of that. Unsealed replacement carbs are available for now...
I am 63 but I wasn't much interested in tractors when I was young, mainly bikes and cars. I did mow a lot of grass and helped fix a lot of mowers. My first car was a 53 Plymouth given to me on my 13th birthday. It was either give it to me or junk it for $10-20 back then. I learned a lot from that car. I fixed it and was driving it a month later.
Since I don't understand Italian the vid didn't do much for me.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 11, 2016 18:37:51 GMT -5
I am 63 but I wasn't much interested in tractors when I was young, mainly bikes and cars. I did mow a lot of grass and helped fix a lot of mowers. My first car was a 53 Plymouth given to me on my 13th birthday. It was either give it to me or junk it for $10-20 back then. I learned a lot from that car. I fixed it and was driving it a month later. You have 5 years on me, my first vehicle was a 1958 GMC pickup. I could leave a strip of rubber until I ran out of straight road. Once I bout a car with a dead engine for $50 and another that was wrecked for $50, I put them together and made a drive-able car at the age of 17. No computers, emissions, or safety gear to worry about. Thanks for the tip on the choke, I'll search the threads.
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 11, 2016 18:42:42 GMT -5
Rubber is easier on curved roads... Life was simpler before all the rules.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 14, 2016 19:25:41 GMT -5
Well, I'm an idiot, when I read electronic enrichment circuit I assumed it meant electric choke since that's what the description of the carbs call it on Amazon. I googled manual choke conversion for GY6 and found the cable conversion for the enrichment device. It's nothing like a choke at all! Yes, it provides a richer mixture for a bit, but it's not anything like what I'm used to. Once I watched a video on how to test one, I figured out one of my issues with the hybrids. If you run them on electric and then try the switch to both the engine doesn't start easily, or at all. I'm thinking the enrichment device is not working properly in the "Mix" mode. I turn the switch to "engine" and it starts right up, well it does now, see next post. I'm trying to separate different issues into their own post to make following this thread easier.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 14, 2016 21:36:48 GMT -5
Success!Hybrid #2 is sorted. I replaced the intake, the old one was cracked. It started right up, no problem. I built a 36V battery pack from three 12V 10AH SLA batteries. The battery/controller box is too small for anything larger. The controllers and converters are mounted on a vertical plastic board that takes up a large portion of the box. I had to pull it out to fit two batteries in the bottom. Then the third battery fits on top and the controller board sits next to it. It's a tight fit but it works. The original charger connector was a 3-pronged affair that resembles a PC power cord. No chargers came with the bikes so I changed out the connectors and used one of those generic 36V chargers for electric scooters. I figured it would be easier to find replacements since I plan on selling a few to pay back my investment. I fired it up in "Mix" mode, it starts off in electric and fires up the engine, nice and smooth. It stumbles a bit because it's cold but the electric motor seems to kick in and it smooths out quickly. I'm not sold on this "feature" but it does work as advertised. I drove it around for a few miles to make sure it didn't have the stumbling issue that the first one has ... no problems! Performance is on par with my daughter's 50cc Taotao, I'm about 210 lbs. so it's not exactly zippy but it gets to 30 mph just fine. I may try a bigger jet, it doesn't like to take off from a stop sign. It could just be that it's been sitting so long that it needs a bit of breaking in. It only had 19 miles on it when I started. I put 3 miles on it before it started raining, hard. I'll ride it to work tomorrow to see how it handles hills and if it starts to open up a bit with a little more use. I tried out the electric only mode, not very impressive. It gets up to 15 mph, that's it. One of the limiting factors is the 10AH battery pack. It's not going to power the motor to it's 500 watt potential. I have some lithium batteries on the way so I should be able to provide the 15AH the motor requires. We'll see how it performs then. Basically I see this as a gas scooter with an electric backup. I wish I had the backup the other day when the red bike stopped running, I could have made it home under it's own power. Now for some pictures:Nice big front disc brake Yes, 19 miles, not even broken in 500 Watt motor controller Control relay, DC/DC Converter (36V-12V), Speed Converter (Auto-start engine controller?) Integrated battery charger (Charges battery pack from engine) We'll see how the drive to work goes. The next bike has 5 miles on the odometer, some parts were stripped off for some reason.
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 15, 2016 1:55:19 GMT -5
Assumptions are OK. When we are working on strange equipment we have to start somewhere. It sounds like you are doing great!
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 15, 2016 7:40:17 GMT -5
This bike does NOT like to run cold. I'm going to try another carb before I get into re-jetting. Once you get going it runs fine, takeoff is mixed bag. It is real sluggish or stalls. I did make the 2 mile trip without incident though.
I REALLY need to upgrade one to 79cc to handle my weight on the hills though.
I'm going to disconnect the enrichment power cable. This should leave the bike running richer, sort of like leaving the choke on but with no real control of the mixture.
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Post by spaz12 on Jul 15, 2016 7:58:03 GMT -5
I'd like to see more pictures of the drivetrain. I'm very curious how it's all put together.
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Post by ryan_ott on Jul 15, 2016 8:12:55 GMT -5
This seems like a real interesting concept. If you have room you could install larger ah batteries for longer run time in electric mode or do a series-parallel configuration. In turn they would take longer to charge up when running.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 15, 2016 11:37:10 GMT -5
I'd like to see more pictures of the drivetrain. I'm very curious how it's all put together. The GY6 engine/CVT are on the left, like a normal scooter. The hub motor bolts onto the drum brake assembly where the plain wheel would normally go. Simple. I'll see if I can get better pictures in a bit.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 15, 2016 11:43:08 GMT -5
This seems like a real interesting concept. If you have room you could install larger ah batteries for longer run time in electric mode or do a series-parallel configuration. In turn they would take longer to charge up when running. I remembered that I have another 36V pack from my old eBike. I'll charge that up and run it in parallel with the 10AH pack I built yesterday. That will exceed the 14AH required for the 500 watt motor. I don't think it will make much difference based on what I've found on various spec sheets for the 48V version. Funny thing is, the factory shipped them with undersized batteries when new, 10AH LiPo packs, 10AH is 72% of the requirements for the motor. The LiPos delivered power at a higher C rating at the cost of range. Even the 48V version shipped with a pack rated to 72% of the requirements!
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 15, 2016 20:44:40 GMT -5
I disconnected the enrichment device power cable so that it basically runs full rich all the time ...
The bike is transformed, no stuttering at stop signs, a bit more zip. So, just as I figured it's running too lean. Now I have to figure out what jet to go with. Any suggestions?
I did an experiment on the way home to see if the hub motor helps on hills, nope. I switched to "Mix" from "Engine" and it turned off the gas engine! It then started it right up and ran normally until I slowed down and it shut off the engine again until I hit the throttle and it started up again. I flipped the switch back to "Engine", enough experimenting for one trip.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 15, 2016 21:03:46 GMT -5
Pictures of the drive system as promised: Here's the GY6 side, nothing out of the ordinary except the upgraded trim pieces, like the "chrome" air box. You can see how the hub motor is connected where the wheel should be. This is the hub motor side: Now, anyone who has built an eBike knows you need a torque arm or brace. This bike has a pretty beefy brace, stronger than what's required for a 500 watt motor.
I failed to mention that the bike has dual rear shocks. I don't know if it matters much but I would think it would help decrease the strain on the motor bushings since the stress would be more balanced.
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