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Post by tocoo on Jul 9, 2018 7:51:36 GMT -5
Tomorrow I will try to ride without the CVT cover and I will try to attache a camera filming the belt while riding.
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Post by snaker on Jul 9, 2018 8:55:40 GMT -5
Some scooters have a gearbox input shaft support bearing installed in the CVT cover. If yours has this, you don't what to ride with the cover removed or you can cause damage to the gearbox.
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Jul 9, 2018 9:14:30 GMT -5
Also, if yours is a Chines scooter like mine, that cover is part of the swingarm and it is my opinion that it is greatly weakened riding without that cover bolted on. Those castings are of questionable metallurgy anyway. I know some folks disagree and many people ride with those wide open skeleton covers but, I would not ride without the cover. You can run it on your center stand and possibly duplicate what you are hearing. Plus, it is easier to video that way. Brent has some videos doing this. If it is something like belt slap, that will show up on the stand test.
Bill
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Post by tocoo on Jul 10, 2018 6:43:13 GMT -5
Yes I cannot ride without the cover, as soon as I tried to remove, it i hear a wheel knocking on the cover and the ''ding ding'' sound. I changed the gearbox oil. Here is a picture of the old oil, which is here since 2014 and 5500km, and the new oil. I still filmed the scooter while riding. THe RPMs are between 6000 and 7000. THere are 3 sounds on the video : the wind, the exhaust pipe and the sound of friction, like the HBO sound at the beginning of their show. When THe sound is audible, it is always audible even with helmet on, so perhaps the sound has always been here, but now it has became louder and so I notice it.... THe volume is high, so decrease the volumewww18.zippyshare.com/v/Ljy0F3kK/file.htmlConcerning these band new rollers, I weighted one and it was 5g. I observed them and one roller has a tiny flat spot on the flank. On this picture, it is between the green outline and the cylinder constituting the roller
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 11, 2018 9:49:09 GMT -5
I am staring at the image as I type, and do not see any green outline. As I stare more, I notice a bit of color on the edge of the roller that is second from the bottom, on the right. If you look, it appears that the 'rubber' parts of this array of rollers is inconsistent in its thickness, at least from my viewpoint. The outermost two on the right are significantly thinner than the other 4. That alone will cause vibration due to imbalance. Rollers need to be supplied in sets of '3', alternated in the slots/grooves to prevent vibration. The above set would, IMO, be imbalanced and vibrate. You would need one more thin to balance. Install fatter rollers in every other groove, thinner in the remaining 3. tom
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Post by diynuke on Jul 11, 2018 13:11:05 GMT -5
I am staring at the image as I type, and do not see any green outline. As I stare more, I notice a bit of color on the edge of the roller that is second from the bottom, on the right. If you look, it appears that the 'rubber' parts of this array of rollers is inconsistent in its thickness, at least from my viewpoint. The outermost two on the right are significantly thinner than the other 4. That alone will cause vibration due to imbalance. Rollers need to be supplied in sets of '3', alternated in the slots/grooves to prevent vibration. The above set would, IMO, be imbalanced and vibrate. You would need one more thin to balance. Install fatter rollers in every other groove, thinner in the remaining 3. tom If it drives good just count all the weight up and divide it by 6 an get that weight for you rollers But honestly i dont really hear too much. My brand new 139QMB makes more noise. And that's not valve lash. Kymco engine's or good brand gy6 engines just are quieter than the 139QMB guess its all about tollerance. However i did find a vid about engine noise and what he did was just jamming the variator with something thought an innertube and a zipty and ran it so the rear pulley wasnt active and then listened for any sound and then with My crappy gy6 has an loud whine from the rear gears so checked the transmission oil and that was full so yeah as long as it works i am happy. And most of the time aslong as it has oil its also happy
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Post by tocoo on Jul 18, 2018 12:08:36 GMT -5
Hello,
I will take a good picture of my rollers. I Tried to remove the clutch, but the 14mm nut is too tight for my 12v impact driver. i tried putting wd40 before and after running the scooter to make the metal hot and I tried to hammer on the manual wrench while I lock the spinning part of the clutch, but nothing.
I am waiting for a sale coupon from amazon to buy a cheap electrical wrench and I will clean the clutch and grease it.
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Moat
Scoot Member
Posts: 88
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Post by Moat on Jul 18, 2018 18:30:41 GMT -5
The outermost two on the right are significantly thinner than the other 4. No - those two are just flipped onto their wider thrust ends, with the other four sitting with the wider, thrust-side up; all are the same. Bob
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Post by tocoo on Jul 19, 2018 0:21:36 GMT -5
here are the pictures of my brand new rollers which have been replaced by the official mechanics. the total weight is 31g for 6 rollers with graphite from pencil. Two of them have a tiny flat spot on the side. I notice the sound at 5000 RPM now. Do you confirm that a corded electrical wrench like this www.amazon.com/Silverline-Tools-Silverstorm-Electric-Wrench/dp/B014FO4I1I will easily remove the 14mm nut of the clutch ? I plan on sell it back since I have no use for it besides this nut.
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Jul 19, 2018 9:31:29 GMT -5
here are the pictures of my brand new rollers which have been replaced by the official mechanics. the total weight is 31g for 6 rollers with graphite from pencil. Two of them have a tiny flat spot on the side. I notice the sound at 5000 RPM now. Do you confirm that a corded electrical wrench like this www.amazon.com/Silverline-Tools-Silverstorm-Electric-Wrench/dp/B014FO4I1I will easily remove the 14mm nut of the clutch ? I plan on sell it back since I have no use for it besides this nut. I just use a 3/8" drive socket wrench to remove that nut. I carry one with me and a spare clutch and variator so I can swap out on the road if needed. (which I have done more than once) I also carry a strap wrench that wraps around the clutch bell to hold it while taking off or tightening. It is easy. Much cheaper and, you always have them for a needed repair. For my variator, I carry a locking device that cost me $10 and again, I just use my socket wrench. Bill
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 19, 2018 13:03:31 GMT -5
If you read the specified torque setting for the clutch and variator, I believe they are in the 40 ft-lb range. You should not need an impact wrench to loosen either fastener. As the pirate stated, a 3/8" ratchet wrench should give enough leverage if you can hold the bits from rotating. A strap wrench may work, or a formed piece of metal that will jam the variator starter gears, or a lever poked into the clutch bell openings, braced to ground or the CVT case. I get the impression people over-torque these nuts regularly. Same with the valve adjustment jam nut.
To my eye, those flat spots should pose no problem. I did not know that the rollers had fat and skinny ends. I have not seen that before... tom tom
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Post by pinkscoot on Jul 19, 2018 13:51:50 GMT -5
Get this to hold your clutch bell and a 3/8" socket should work. On another note, I installed a Polini variator that does indeed have grease in it. It also has oil seals to keep the grease in place so it's not a never have grease thing.
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Jul 19, 2018 14:21:04 GMT -5
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Post by tocoo on Jul 20, 2018 0:24:17 GMT -5
To hold the variator, i have the little piece of metal with 3 teeth and it works well. My 12V impact driver still failed to remove the 17mm nut, so I used a wrench and a hammer once the variator was locked. For the clutch, I lock it with oil filter wrench like here www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp2UdNyqIQw. What I like with the Strap Wrench is that you can also use it to hold the clutch in order to remove the 38mm nut. Peugeot says to use the Spanner Wrench Holder and another tool for the 38mm. THe manual says that both the 14mm nut and 17mm nut must be tighten to 50Nm, but I think the official mechanics managed to lock the 17mm nut.
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 20, 2018 8:23:22 GMT -5
Well, boy howdy. Check the table below. ~40 ft/lb as noted...
Newton-meters to Foot-pounds table Newton-meters Foot-pounds 50 Nm 36.88 ft-lb 51 Nm 37.62 ft-lb 52 Nm 38.35 ft-lb 53 Nm 39.09 ft-lb
Guess 40 ft-lb was a little bit too much, but who can come exactly to 36.88? tom
ADDed:
I just went looking for a variator holder as the one linked. They sure want a lot for a small chunk of metal with zero machining.
Surprisingly, the ebay listing was the most affordable of all those I found. Even aliexpress was higher. There is a tool that shows on youtube that you more or less jam into the CVT, top left corner, that links to the starter gear teeth. The inventor(I think) posted his video on his 'invention' and failed to give a link to a source. I think the USA made product is better and maybe more affordable, FWIW.
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