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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 9:16:33 GMT -5
This was the original CDI
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 9:22:39 GMT -5
Ah ok, then ueah it deffinetly is because it doesnt have any ither wires for an exciter coil. Good ti know TY!!! tbh im not even sure if the original one was bad, i wasnt sure id there was a way to test them, so i jist went with buying a new one and coil. I have two OEM CDIs from both scooters. They r both the same size and pins. Just one is older it seems. And nothing changes witg either one plugged in. Maybe its been the stator the entire time? Every video ive watched seems to have been an AC system because they all had exciter coils.
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 9:28:47 GMT -5
Ok, switched to the oem cdi. .when cranking, i get 0.56 volts to the sparkplug wire with my meter set to 20DCV. So that should deffinetly be higher i would assume. But now i get voltage there when before i didnot so thats a plus haha
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 9:34:18 GMT -5
And i have not found any tutorials online for DC systems..only AC ones :/ what an ass pain haha
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 10:03:09 GMT -5
Thank you for the info! I try searching for DC stator on ebay but all the ones i see, the photo shows ones with exciter coil wire. Is scrappydogscooters a bettwr option to buy from? I live in CT Usa, would they have decently quick shipping? All tge ones on ebay from China are estimated around September :/ i would like to atleast have this thibg runnibg and ridable soon. Truck needs a motor so will be a while before i can afford a new one. Im pretty mechanical, do all my own repairs, but never worked on scooters before, and not done much with vehicle electrical systems. This seems rather simple though, but seems scooters are not as simple as go to the parts store and get what you need.. the closest scooter shop to me is 2hrs away, and they dont carry parts for chinese scooters. This "simple fix" has turned into a nightmare. Neither scooter had spark, so figured between the two getting one working should be easy. Hahahaha shoulda known better. Sorry for all the "newbie" questions and long posts. I just like to have and give 100% information as much as possible! But ive gotteb more help in the short time here than i have the entire time workibg on this thing so thank you very much. And hopefully after this thinh is running, someone can use this thread to help them if rhey are in the same situation If you look at a DC stator, it won't have an exciter coil. Exciter coils usually stand out from the charging coils because they're often wrapped with fiberglass while the others aren't. DC CDIs are usually larger. The most common CDIs for these 139QMB engines are AC, so if you order a CDI that doesn't specify AC or DC, most likely it's AC. chinesescooterparts.com/ac-vs-dc-fired-or-pulsed-cdi-ignition-systems/
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 11, 2018 10:22:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure what to tell you about scrappy ATM. Best I can tell you is check the dealer reviews section and decide for yourself. Should be plenty of options for DC CDIs. I'd think the chances of both of your DC CDIs being bad would be slim, but it could be the case. With a DC setup, as long as you've got a good pickup signal the stator shouldn't be a concern and you can probably just replace the pickup. Could also be as simple as a large gap between the reluctor (bump on flywheel) and pickup. That gap should be soemthing like 0.010" to 0.030" or somewhere between a business card and credit card's thickness. You can't really measure voltage out of the coil in the plug wire with a multimeter from my experience. You can do primary and secondary resistance checks on coils if you have specs (service manual). You can look for a ground on the kill wire to the CDI. If any ground is present with the key on and kill switch set to run, there's a problem somewhere or other saftey switches (kick stand maybe). A ground there tells the CDI not to fire. If no ground is present there, then you shouldn't have to worry about switches being the issue. Pinout here : www.buggydepot.com/tech-center/pinout-diagram-dc-cdi/
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Post by snaker on Aug 11, 2018 11:23:51 GMT -5
Hoping the diagram shows up. Its titled as a Kymco Agility 50. Credit to name in lower right corner. This diagram shows a single phase/ half wave / DC type stator. That means if your machine match's it Uses a DC CDI. Follow the diagram's stator. Only a lighting coil, no ignition power coil as 90GTVert says. Start at the bottom of the lighting coil. There is a GY6 typical chassis along with several others in the diagram (Your going to have to relook at your chassis ground situation) . If you actually don't have a ground wire in the stator harness then its must be relying on the plate and mounting hardware for the ground conduction. Next up you see the yellow wire tapping off a mid point of the coil. That is the low output circuit going to the RR for regulation, the autochoke and headlight. At the top of the lighting coil is the white wire. That is the high output charging circuit going to the RR. Next to the stator is the pulse coil (B/L wire?) That is where the ignition signal originates and is sent to the CDI.
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 12:02:29 GMT -5
Hoping the diagram shows up. Its titled as a Kymco Agility 50. Credit to name in lower right corner. This diagram shows a single phase/ half wave / DC type stator. That means if your machine match's it Uses a DC CDI. Follow the diagram's stator. Only a lighting coil, no ignition power coil as 90GTVert says. Start at the bottom of the lighting coil. There is a GY6 typical chassis along with several others in the diagram (Your going to have to relook at your chassis ground situation) . If you actually don't have a ground wire in the stator harness then its must be relying on the plate and mounting hardware for the ground conduction. Next up you see the yellow wire tapping off a mid point of the coil. That is the low output circuit going to the RR for regulation, the autochoke and headlight. At the top of the lighting coil is the white wire. That is the high output charging circuit going to the RR. Next to the stator is the pulse coil (B/L wire?) That is where the ignition signal originates and is sent to the CDI. Yes that deffinetly matches. And from what ive checked. Im getting voltage from the pickup coil to the CDI, around 1v. And voltage at the spark coil, and the spark plug wire. At about 0.40-0.60v but absolutely no spark. Ive swapped both CDIs and have the same voltage. The pickup was rusty so i sanded it clean along with the spot on the fly wheel, and re adjusted the pickup to .010. Still no spark. Ive tried 3 different brand new spark plugs as well. Would no chassis ground cause the problem you think? Though i get continuity at the starter ground to the battery, but that seems to be a direct ground. From what im understanding. As long as the pickup is working it should be sparking. The spark coil is brand new, the other two i have are bad. Like previously stated, maybe both CDIs are bad. The brand new racing cdi im assuming is an AC one. Though when i check voltage at the sparkplug wire i still get voltage with it but much less at 0.20-0.30v The smaller plug going to the CDI with the single wire has 12v so its deffinetly for DC and is gettibg power there.
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 12:23:02 GMT -5
Pickup coil resistance when set to 200 is 115.
Spark coil resistance to the wire with no spark cap on and tester set to 20k is 7.66
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 11, 2018 12:24:46 GMT -5
And resistance when set at 200 between the two spark cpil terminals is 1.6
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Post by snaker on Aug 11, 2018 12:54:27 GMT -5
Ya might try something.
ohm out between the sparkplug hole and the battery neg terminal.
I also noticed that the diagram does not have a specific kill circuit connection at the CDI rather the kill circuit ties into the ignition trigger signal from between the pulse coil and the CDI and gets grounded at the "Comb switch". Somewhat unusual. A lot of CDI's have a kill circuit connector pin. You would have to verify that your new CDI's jive with that.
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 13, 2018 8:38:43 GMT -5
Ya might try something. ohm out between the sparkplug hole and the battery neg terminal. I also noticed that the diagram does not have a specific kill circuit connection at the CDI rather the kill circuit ties into the ignition trigger signal from between the pulse coil and the CDI and gets grounded at the "Comb switch". Somewhat unusual. A lot of CDI's have a kill circuit connector pin. You would have to verify that your new CDI's jive with that. I checked it this morning. It doesnot ohm out between sparkplug cap and negative terminal on bat. and i get 8k from there to positive terminal. The ohms are on the low side of spec according to the manual i read online. They said without boot the wire should ohm between 7k-12k. And im just over 7k. And ssys .5-1.0 accriss the coil terminals and i have 1.5. Its a racing coil not sure if thar matters. But i get voltage at the plug cap when it cranks. But its only .56 - .68v. Just doesnt seem right to me.. Im going to order an OEM CDI and see if it fixes it. Its the only thibg that makes sense to me at this point because everythibg else is checked out. What an asspain wish i knew about the DC system before ordering the one last time haha
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Aug 15, 2018 8:26:14 GMT -5
As I remember, Kymco was one brand that used DC CDIs. I would bet the blue CDI is a 'performance' AC CDI.
That said, why not put back the factory CDI, or trade from the 'parts' machine.
Also look up the Kymco wiring schematic/diagram, and I think you will be able to identify your flywheel wires.
With a DC CDI you must have a battery that is functional and charged, or you will get ZERO spark. Kick it all day long, without the battery, there's not power to operate the CDI. tom
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 15, 2018 15:56:40 GMT -5
Yes it is DC. And Thats what i did. As stated before. I swapped out and used both oem(original equipment manufacturer) CDIs from the scooters and still no spark. Same 0.56 voltage at the spark plug wire. And the battery is brand new fully charged, im not kicking it over im using the starter. Im guessing both CDIs are bad. I ordered a new OEM one. Gunna take forever to get it. Hopefully it works :/ nothing else seems to be the cause of the no spark. If it doesn't work i will probably light them on fire hahahaha As I remember, Kymco was one brand that used DC CDIs. I would bet the blue CDI is a 'performance' AC CDI. That said, why not put back the factory CDI, or trade from the 'parts' machine. Also look up the Kymco wiring schematic/diagram, and I think you will be able to identify your flywheel wires. With a DC CDI you must have a battery that is functional and charged, or you will get ZERO spark. Kick it all day long, without the battery, there's not power to operate the CDI. tom
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Post by swampy0420 on Aug 15, 2018 16:01:09 GMT -5
New spark plugs. I got a new stator as well and no change. Checked all the wiring for breaks or corosion and found nothing bad. Swapped out all the random relays and little electronic boxes, no changes. Things crazy it shouldn't be this hard haha. CDI is the only thing i can think of that makes sense. Just wild that both of them are bad
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