Wont Start - No spark

[mikec]

This Forum has been and continues to keep my scoot running. Lets see if anyone can point me in the right direction, yet again.

Symptoms a few days before it would no longer start

3 days ago I started the scoot and within 30 seconds of riding id almost died on me. bogged down twice up a hill. almost died but it kicked back into action.

Next morning started it, idled for 2 seconds stalled. Started it again, idled for a few seconds and again stalled. by the 4th time It remained running

Same day I picked up the wife and scooted home. Never had her on it before. She is light but combined the scoot was now pulling 300lbs up a steep hill. Seemed to work just fine BUT the next morning It would not start. which brings us to the current situations

Scoot will crank but nothing happens.

So Far:
-Bogging down and now starting - Carb. Nope. Cleaned it. No blockage and its now clean as a whistle. 
-Checked all the lines heading to the carb. All in good condition and are in working order.
-Put in a new spark plug. 
-Sprayed some starter fluid in it (bad I know), nothing. Zero.
-Auto-choke is tested and is working

This is why I think its a spark issue. I took the same plug (old one and new one) and hooked it up to my Ninja. Both of them sparked. Okay so the plugs should be good. I then ran a lead from my Ninja's Ignition coil to my scooter and hit the starter on both of them at the same time.  You could hear a change of noise in the scoot like it was getting close to catching/starting/firing or whatever the term is. 

I read online that it might be the ignition coil. I removed that.. or at least the sire heading from a black tox to the spark plug. Testing that cable and its working fine (again by swapping that wire into the Ninja and getting spark again from the spark plug).


So let me know if i'm going down the wrong path here, but the next things I think to check is the CDI, the stator, and should I test the actual black box that the start plug cable goes into and not just he cable itself?

I have not checked compression as I don't have tester. I can order one but I live remote so it will be a good 2-4 weeks until that is shipped in, if i do.

2009 Derbi Atlantis Bullet
6,800 KMS 

Other lingering issues which may or may not relate to this current no start problem
- Speedometer stopped working months ago
- Ever since purchase the lights flicker heavily. front headlight and dash. at night it can be so bad that I change it over to high beam as that is solid. 


Any advice from the experts? And sadly the advice of burn it and buy a new one wont help much as I don't have the disposable cash to make that a reality right now  

Thanks all!

[katt]

Could be valve gap, fuel valve or vacuum hose, but since you mentioned spark plug, take out spark plug, connect spark plug to the ignition wire and then hold plastic part of spark wire hand (or some tool) and touch engine (ground) with the tip of plug and turn starter and watch if it spark.

[mikec]

katt tx. I checked the spark plug. When plugged in to the scooter, there is no spark when I hold it against a ground. When I use that same spark plug plugged into my motorcycle and touch a ground, it sparks. so the plug itself if good.

Good point re: Valves. I'll have to add that to the list of items to investigate and also order some feeler gauges.

[gsx600racer]

Sept 8, 2018 15:18:27 GMT -5 mikec said:

katt tx. I checked the spark plug. When plugged in to the scooter, there is no spark when I hold it against a ground. When I use that same spark plug plugged into my motorcycle and touch a ground, it sparks. so the plug itself if good.

Good point re: Valves. I'll have to add that to the list of items to investigate and also order some feeler gauges.

The only valves are the reeds. This can be checked by removing the air box and snorkel and put you hand over the intake of the carb and feel for blow back out of the carb.

[mikec]

Sept 8, 2018 15:37:23 GMT -5 gsx600racer said:

Sept 8, 2018 15:18:27 GMT -5 mikec said:

katt tx. I checked the spark plug. When plugged in to the scooter, there is no spark when I hold it against a ground. When I use that same spark plug plugged into my motorcycle and touch a ground, it sparks. so the plug itself if good.

Good point re: Valves. I'll have to add that to the list of items to investigate and also order some feeler gauges.

The only valves are the reeds. This can be checked by removing the air box and snorkel and put you hand over the intake of the carb and feel for blow back out of the carb.

Okay, I need to verify the obvious here. With my hand over the intake, If i feel bloc back is that a good thing or bad? Trying to youtbue this but I am only finding pulling the reed out to inspect which may be another option, I guess 

[katt]

You use stock ignition? I had problem with stock ignition before if inside ignition wire that goes over the sspark plug had a component that's like cap with Flathead screwdriver grooves on the outer part and it was loose, check yours.

Could be wrong here, but if you have AC ignition check harness coming from your alternator it has plastic connector with multiple wires and 2 separate wires, one goes into CDI other is crankshaft position sensor, if you use multi-meter and measure when turning ignition with starter, ignition wire should give about ~100V AC, (set your multimeter to max volts AC to be safe), on't forget connect black wire to scooter frame (ground). Mark wires to not mix them.

After this if you have ignition there you can test your CDI output, it should give about 600V AC so set your multi-meter at max AC voltage it has like 1000V AC and test wire that comes from CDI to ignition.

You could try conventional 110v light bulb if have no multi-meter or don't want to take chances with CDI test.

[gsx600racer]

Check out here. Derbi manual

Pages 39-41 for testing electrical.

[geoffh]

This new territory for me but I will have a shot,the ignition coil and cdi is a combined unit on this model and costs around 20dollars in europe,I would fit a new one and see what happens.I will add that your scoot is covered in dust \grime which won,t help your electrics give it some TLC and your lights might not be so moody.

Geoff

[mikec]

Quick update. Gave the scoot a damn good clean before I took the reed out. Didnt want gunk falling into the engine.

Anyway, Reeds checked and they look surprisingly good. look like new.

Ran the electrical tests in the Debi manual for the stator/pick-up. Ordered a new one online. Hopefully that resolved the issue. If not, the next would be the CDI.

Funny though as I started digging into the area where the Stator is house,s on the of three screw heads was completely stripped. So I'm guessing someone else has been in there.

I'll update the thread at the next step...hopefully its a good update.

Cheers.

Mike

[mikec]

Quick Update and question for anyone reading this far into the thread.

New stator arrived. Well maybe not new as the stator has a broken plastic piece. Notified the ebay seller who is asking for me to send a photo of the old stator once removed to compare. which brings us to the next challenge. Removing the flywheel cover to get at the stator.


Long story short, my friend who had a flywheel puller can not find it sooo I now need to get this damn cover off somehow. 

Does anyone have input on if this one will work (http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/kimpex-flywheel-puller-0267657p.html#srp)? I can pick this up in person so I wont have to wait another 2+ weeks for shipping from an online retailer. It looks a bit different than the ones I have seen in youtube videos but I'm hoping it will work.

Thoughts? 

Mike

[katt]

Is it GY6 motor then you can use this one www.ebay.com/itm/Magneto-Flywheel-Puller-27mm-24mm-for-GY6-50-125-150cc-Scooter-ATV-Repair-Tool/163190260349?epid=6022286045&hash=item25fee5c27d:g:3jkAAOSwciVbaVTm

Its just magnetic force that holds it on so really you can make your own pulley of some kind if you use your imagination.

So you get no voltage coming to CDI from stator ?

[scooterpimp]

Gy6? No its a 2t, magnetic force??? Or tapered shaft & keway...

[gsx600racer]

Oct 6, 2018 21:49:27 GMT -5 katt said:

Is it GY6 motor then you can use this one www.ebay.com/itm/Magneto-Flywheel-Puller-27mm-24mm-for-GY6-50-125-150cc-Scooter-ATV-Repair-Tool/163190260349?epid=6022286045&hash=item25fee5c27d:g:3jkAAOSwciVbaVTm

Its just magnetic force that holds it on so really you can make your own pulley of some kind if you use your imagination.

So you get no voltage coming to CDI from stator ?

It is not a GY6 engine. It's a 2 stroke Piaggio.

FYI: A bone stock version of this engine(50cc)with the intake restriction removed, some CVT tuning and you have a high 40's to low 50's mph ride.(I know. I'v tuned a couple of them)Derbi and Beta brands.

These are the engines to build if you want to be leader of the pack.(and leave them behind)


2nd, Magnetic force DOES NOT hold the flywheel on the crankshaft. Its the TAPER on both the crankshaft and flywheel as well as the crankshaft nut. The flywheel key is to align the flywheel to the crankshaft for the correct ignition timing.

Do some reading here

[scooterpimp]

MAY THE MAGNETIC FORCE BE WITH YOU. Katt Skywalker...

[geoffh]

A quick glance through the manual,remove the crank nuut and fashion a puller that uses the crank as a fixed point to lever off the flywheel from it,s grip on the taper,any normal bearing puller set could be adapted to do this.

Geoff ,05 04 be with you