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Post by honda4life on Aug 18, 2019 21:11:31 GMT -5
Ok I bought this ‘09 Zuma and it’s only had like 700 miles on it. Bought a technigas silent pro exhaust, malossi variator, and Dellorto phbg 19mm carb for it.
it runs pretty well but I know it has a bit more potential. Here’s the specs:
Jets are 90/45/60 and I’m running a uni filter. Air screw is turned out 3/4 turn. The needle is 2 notches from the top.
Not super good with the 2 smokes and need some help here....
starts ok and idles ok. Not real snappy on the throttle response. I’ve noticed that up to 1/2 throttle it tops out. From 1/2 to full throttle it doesn’t pull anymore. So maybe the midrange is too rich (needle?)
It seems a bit cold natured and I have to have it idle for like a minute before I take off or it will stall.
Once I take off, it gets going and in the upper rpm’s it blows hella white smoke out at first. Once I get 1/4 mile down the road it’s gone.
Does this mean my pilot is too rich and it burning off the extra fuel? It only does it at first throttle up. Not after that.
Help a fella 2 smoka out here!! Haha
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Post by geoffh on Aug 19, 2019 14:53:15 GMT -5
Assuming you have the OE barrel at 49cc,I would take a step back and refit the stock carb and stock airbox and get it running right all sealed and checked etc,needle clip n center slot air screw two turns (ish)out.let us know when you have this done what happens,take notes be methodical.the 19mmcarb and unifilter are next level and will be hard to tune,check the tech section for how to,s.there are no magic formulas.
Geoff
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Post by honda4life on Aug 21, 2019 21:54:18 GMT -5
Well tonight I changed my pilot jet from 45 down to 42. It seemed to be a bit cold natured when I first started it up. After the first pull it would run ok. I’m interested in tuning it a bit more and smoother.
I’m considering a bbk as well.
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Post by Kenho21 on Aug 21, 2019 22:42:31 GMT -5
Assuming you have the OE barrel at 49cc,I would take a step back and refit the stock carb and stock airbox and get it running right all sealed and checked etc,needle clip n center slot air screw two turns (ish)out.let us know when you have this done what happens,take notes be methodical.the 19mmcarb and unifilter are next level and will be hard to tune,check the tech section for how to,s.there are no magic formulas. Geoff I second what’s said above. I would slow down and get one part in tune at a time. I know it’s less exciting in the short-term, but long-run it’ll be much less of a headache and probably end up with a more dialed in tune. Put the suck air box and carb back on, get it running well, and then move onto the carb. At most, I’d just take the snorkel off the stock airbox. I tried running an uni in the past, and in my opinion, for a cruiser or daily, stock is the way to go. If you’re just going for crazy hyper race power, then I’d think more about an uni. Just my two cents... |
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Post by repherence2 on Aug 22, 2019 0:17:07 GMT -5
do you know how heavy the existing roller weights were?
how heavy are the rollers for the molossi variator?
im under the impression that the technigas silent pro may have shifted your power band slightly upward.
maybe you have to try some stiffer clutch springs?
im hoping the rollers that you installed with your malossi variator are lighter than the existing rollers that you remove. if the rollers for the malossi are heavier, the setup starts to shift at a lower rpm. if your malossi rollers are way lighter than the existing rollers, the setup shifts at a higher rpm. the reason why I hope the malossi rollers are lighter than stock, is because the pipe probably moved the power curve toward higher RPMs. let's just say that your stock setup built power at 8000rpm. let's say that the techigas silent pro moves the power curve up and now it starts to build power at 9000-9500rpm. you have to compensate accordingly with the CVT. so, let's just say you just added the pipe first, I would probably have changed the rollers and go lighter. when I bought Leo Vince ZX-R pipes, they came with it's own set of rollers and clutch springs. the idea is to get the roller weight in tune with your power curve. you need a roller weight that is light enough to get the "shift" RPM to where it needs to be. that "shift" RPM is when your bore/pipe/carb combo starts to enter it's peak power. you keep fiddling with different weights till it's light enough to have the CVT start to shift when your setup begins to enter it's peak power RPM. so let's just say that the technigas pipe and the carb/UNI filter moved your peak to 9500RPM. you need to tune the rollers so that the shifting of that transmission/CVT starts just before 9500RPM.
if you don't get the CVT into a decent tune for your Bore/Pipe/Csrb/Intake setup, you going be getting frustrated thinking that it's your carb tuning. ...over and over you going to be fiddling with that carb, thinking that it's the jetting, be it pilot, main, or needle. sometimes it's your CVT that screws you up, making you think it's the carb tune.
weights too heavy, it starts to shift too soon when the engine not even approaching peak power.
weights too light, you overshoot the peak power of the engine, it accelerates pretty well until you get to the upper end of the Variator, then it just lugs and it feels like no power at maximum throttle. it's because the transmission started shifting on the aft end of the power curve. after the variator ramps max out, after that it's up to the engine setup to pull it through, but usually in that case you're on the downward slope of the power curve.
usually when you improve exhaust and intake, you have to fiddle with the clutch engagement too. you probably did all these mods and still have stock clutch springs. the more parts you change out, the more "balancing" you have to do. it's engine and CVT hand in hand. my understanding is this, your clutch and contra springs are "stock". you changed pipe, carb/filter, and variator and rollers. you probably need to stall the clutch either +500 or +1000RPM over stock. you gotta find the clutch spring that gets the clutch to bite right before the power curve begins to peak. let's just say that your current combo moved you peak power to 9500RPM and your stock peak power was at 8000RPM. let's just say your stock clutch springs started to bit at 7500RPM, for the new setup, the engine is probably making less power at 7500RPM than the "stock" setup was making at then same 7500RPM. now comes the new setup that peaks at 9500RPM. you need to stall your clutch to engage at more like 8500RPM. if the clutch engages at the "stock" 7500, but your power is at 9500, it's going to feel like no real power once the variator is maxed out.
same goes with the rollers. you move the power band upward in RPM, you gotta go lighter on the rollers to get the "shift" RPM in the region that the engine is making power. your weights too heavy, then the CVT starts shifting at an RPM in which the engine isn't making power. add to that, you changed your variator. depending on the variator, the roller ramp geometry/curvature is different as well as how far out the ramps extend. that will dictate how stable the shift RPM is and how much top speed you will have. malossi variators have roller ramps that extend further than stock, so your top speed will most likely be faster than the stock variator.
bottom line, it's a balancing act. you need to balance intake/filter with the carb. you need to balance engine power RPM with your CVT engagement and shift point.
in regards to your carb settings, maybe you don't have enough differential pressure to the carb for it to act right. being that it's a 49cc bore and a pod filter, maybe there's not enough differential pressure on each side of the carb to draw the proper amount of fuel. pod filter versus air box, air flow, volume, and the vacuum drawn on the main jet is different. I run a 28 OKO, mesh filter (screen) not foam pod on a 94cc setup. it's pretty much a "wide open" carb setup but the mesh screen prevents small rocks from going into the engine. tuning the 28 OKO was a nightmare until I made a venturri diffuser for the carb.
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Post by honda4life on Aug 24, 2019 0:22:26 GMT -5
Dude...
You just blew my mind. That’s a lot of info to take in at once.
Why go back to stock when changing the carb/weights will change with every mod I do?
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Post by geoffh on Aug 24, 2019 9:38:27 GMT -5
Dude... You just blew my mind. That’s a lot of info to take in at once. Why go back to stock when changing the carb/weights will change with every mod I do? Stock?? Boo hoo. keep your eyes on Craig's list for this one Geoff  |
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Post by honda4life on Aug 25, 2019 23:09:47 GMT -5
Why would you say that? Do you think I would be selling it soon? NOT.
I bought it for $400 with 700 miles on it.
Dellorto phbg carb and technigas silent pro exhaust. I actually think it’s running pretty well at the moment. With the stock air box deleted and the uni I’m topping out at 43 so I’m pretty close without any flat spots. That’s probably close to how fast it will go I believe.
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Post by moofus02 on Aug 26, 2019 4:27:17 GMT -5
Why would you say that? Do you think I would be selling it soon? NOT. I bought it for $400 with 700 miles on it. Dellorto phbg carb and technigas silent pro exhaust. I actually think it’s running pretty well at the moment. With the stock air box deleted and the uni I’m topping out at 43 so I’m pretty close without any flat spots. That’s probably close to how fast it will go I believe. An 09 with stock gears and bore and pipe should run about there. My 08 with zx pipe will gps at 44. I would ditch the pod filter and go back to the air box, pull the elbow out and tune for the air box,you will have a more consistent tune that won't be as fickle about weather changes. You can feed a 90cc through the stock airbox. The phbg is a great carb and should serve you well |
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Post by honda4life on Aug 27, 2019 17:09:00 GMT -5
So you say it will change the jetting when weather gets colder? I had the stock box with snorkel removed and a drop in Uni. It ran pretty well.
It is a bit cold natured as it is but once warmed up runs really well.
So 43 is about what I should expect right?
I’m looking at the Polini Corsa at the moment. For a streetable big bore in your opinion should I go with aluminum or iron? 1 ring or 2?
Would I have to pre-mix at that point?
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Post by ryan_ott on Aug 27, 2019 17:42:36 GMT -5
With aluminum you get one chance to get your tune correct. If you go lean the cylinder is destroyed, cast is more forgiving. Check my sig I’ve got a Corsa, C16 and a 21mm and I can consistently get 64/65 flat out at just over 10K, 45/50 up 8% grade isn’t an issue. I’m using an air box and don’t need to adjust for weather. It’s really a good combo. The Polini for race4 is also a really good pipe for a modest rpm.
Athena (aluminum) although inexpensive didn’t wear well for me, 3 cylinders got scuffed in short order, Airsal wore much better, Polini gets my money though, I’ve got thousands of trouble free miles on their stuff.
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Post by ryan_ott on Aug 27, 2019 17:45:43 GMT -5
Anything over stock you should consider premix, it’s annoying at first but it becomes a part of your fill-up. Increased rpm and larger CC is not what the stock pump was designed for. Although I did a crude test awhile back and it really does flow OK, but for how long.
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Post by honda4life on Aug 27, 2019 21:15:01 GMT -5
Are you at sea level? The stock airbox is such a pia to get on/off.!
I would like 45-50 with decent torque for daily use. I have carbon reeds, malossi variator/contra spring, 6gm rollers.
90/42/60 jets on 19mm Dellorto carb.
It runs fine but as usual you eventually want more. Haven’t messed with final drive...
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Post by ryan_ott on Aug 27, 2019 21:43:38 GMT -5
Most of my riding is between 250-500, close enough to sea level... Swapping jets you don’t need to completely remove the box just pop off the carb connection. My jetting with an air box and a bigger carb is 38/84 and W9 needle with an AC cylinder I was using a 88. Air boxes really help. You may want to get some different needles for tuning also.
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Post by honda4life on Aug 29, 2019 23:11:40 GMT -5
The 90 jet is pretty large but with an open filter it’s probably about right. It SUCKS gas up though. My ruckus gets crazy gas mileage (over 100mpg) but the Zuma goes through some gas man...haha
Thanks for the suggestions.
I feel like 3/4-full throttle I don’t see any increase or improvement so maybe I’m too rich in the midrange..
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