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Post by chehystpewpur on Oct 9, 2019 16:20:04 GMT -5
look on scooter tuning dot ca they carry quality products and i have zero complaints from them and they are the only place i buy from anymore. i can also recommend the pwk oko as an alright knock off carb they are just picky to tune but mine is a little oversized being a 21mm and having a power jet adds some finickyness to it. but when air cooled in florida i needed the extra air and fuel to keep cool on long high speed roads. scooter tuning has real dellorto carbs for less than the carb you linked for example.
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Post by christopher on Oct 9, 2019 18:12:58 GMT -5
A little lighter color over the black today, still seems to run fine. Waiting on my trail tech temperature gauge with 14mm plug adapter. Looking like I should change to an 88.5 or change plugs to a br8 from br9 to help the plug clean itself off.
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Post by chehystpewpur on Oct 9, 2019 19:04:49 GMT -5
i see some wetness on the tip so it deff needs a smaller jet. i would run the plug through a wire brush or get a new plug to make it alot easier and faster to tell what your jetting changes do faster. how are you liking the power gain so far?
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Post by christopher on Oct 9, 2019 19:32:57 GMT -5
I like it, I had a 6.98 second 0-35MPH with a 1500 contra spring.1500 spring revved to much for me seemed to be staying in high gear to long. Moved to a 1000 contra spring and 0-35MPH times are about 7.9 seconds, but the motor doesn't rev as high all the time. Did get to 10,000 RPM a few times, small grades the rpm held fairly well maybe fell of 200 rpm. Still felt like she had some left but didn't want to push the cylinder to hard until it is broke in a bit better and I can monitor cylinder temperature.
Found a used Dellorto 19mm phbg DS on eBay, looks genuine and has a Dellorto box. Found a few people with a 70cc 2 stroke setup and they were just about all using the same jetting. Seems Dellorto did a good job of setting this up from the factory. Looks like figuring out a throttle cable and choke cable could be fun.
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Post by chehystpewpur on Oct 9, 2019 21:38:23 GMT -5
i used a knock off pwk oko from parts for scooters back when i still bought things from them and it used a pretty common aftermarket throttle cable. its a knock off of the dellorto and was from the time that a dell was harder to get for a good price. i think mine was 70 bux and the dell is under 100 now. id assume being a knock off it would use a similar cable. if it was me id just use the money i saved on a cylinder and get the good carb brand new when you can. scooter tuning has a few that are a little less than the dellorto and may still be a good option and better than the pwk but either should work fine if you dont get a huge one. and are you sure its a choke cable in the throttle cable and not oil injection maybe? my factory one had a split in it and one side went to carb and one side went to oil injection. im guessing thats what your talking about. as most of the aftermarket carbs will have a manual choke.
id always worry about using a used carb as the float bowl may be out of adjustment or broken and the float needle may be worn and over fill the carb as you dont know what the previous owner did to it. if your good at cleaning carbs and have compressed air and a blow gun with a good rubber nipple on it its not a huge deal but something to think about as the price of used plus a rebuild kit may be as much as a reputable new carb. add in a new throttle cable as youll most likely need one and you may be spending more. just something to think about.
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Post by 190mech on Oct 10, 2019 4:09:42 GMT -5
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Post by christopher on Oct 10, 2019 18:40:14 GMT -5
Put in a new plug and a trail tech temperature sensor. Ran fine on a couple mile trip up and down a county road. Running at 40 mph the temp started climbing, I looked down saw 345 and let off the throttle. Temp dropped back to 325 them 300 in about a half mile. Now the odd part my plug went from rich to a light tan going from a 95 to 90 main jet. going to try a 92.5 Makes me wonder if the jet sizes are correct. I have calipers I just need to find a pin to use that wind damage the brass. Maybe a tapered sewing needle. Also need to do some research, are there better fans than the stock one that will improve cooling? Wondering if something off a 90cc or other larger bore will fit? Maybe one moves more air? Have to go play with Penelope getting scolded for ignoring her.
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Post by chehystpewpur on Oct 10, 2019 19:09:23 GMT -5
did you remove the compression washer on the spark plug when installing the trail tech? and it looks better color atleast but it is a new plug too and most likely making cleaner stronger spark than the old one was so processing the fuel a little better. its also most likely starting to make some more compression as the rings seat in too so maybe it wants more fuel now. if you changed the temp range on the plug that could also affect jetting some.
i used to see refrences to using the br9hs spark plug on these kits in the past but it seems like websites have been putting the br9es as the recommended plug for them and it really has me wondering. ive ran the hs plugs for quite some time in my sport pro mkii cylinders and i think if the weather is nice tomorrow im gonna get the es as its a longer thread and its time for a new plug anyways. the head is pretty deep on these and i will let you know if it doesnt make contact with the piston. i dont think it will but it may be worth checking out on the spare head you have. thread your old plug into the threads and put a picture up for me if you can if you have a chance before i make a parts run tomorrow. im wondering if the plug will protrude or if it is receeded into the head some with an hs plug. i never bothered to look as it seemed pretty clear the normal plugs were the plug to run but in hind sight due to the depth of the head they may have revised their previous recommendations.
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Post by christopher on Oct 10, 2019 20:21:22 GMT -5
I did remove the washer on the plug. I've been running a BR9HS the entire time on the 70cc setup. The rich black plug was a brand new BR9HS also. I went back to Napa and bought the other 4 BR9HS they had left. I'll go out to the garage and look now, will the protruding threads be a hot spot and cause detonation? I think the plugs such as a BR9ES the extra thread will be exposed in the chamber. BR9HS - standard insulator and thread length. BPR7HIX - projected insulator tip with standard thread length.
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Post by chehystpewpur on Oct 10, 2019 20:53:11 GMT -5
no the protruding plug shouldnt cause a hot spot but if a plug is at the wrong depth it could cause improper combustion. which that could cause detonation. so the cylinder would not perform as it should. also running a lower octane fuel can cause detonation and i can attest that these guys like high octane fuel. mine almost wont run with 89 or 90 octane in it. it will gargle and pop and make low power and im guessing thats what detonation sounds like on this bike. ive heard it in cars but not on these until i tried some crappy fuel a little while ago and will never run a lower octane again. atleast with a higher compression cylinder like these. with proper squish on these and a good bore they claim 14:1 and its pretty apparent atleast with mine it wants the good stuff.
ok atleast you removed the seal on the plug as that would put the plug inside of the head and cause it to run poorly. the sensor that goes around the plug is about the same thickness so it should still be spaced right for the plug. im just wondering if we really do need the longer plug and if i would have ran across that info before i shipped you those parts i would run out and check myself lol. its killing me not knowing as missing out on free power would be heart braking. and give me some fun on my day off tomorrow. i may still go out and do some depth checking on mine and see what piston clearance is on mine as im really reluctant to remove my head again right now but i do need to get a new gasket set it would just be down and out for a little bit and riding season is almost over here. it may be by the time gaskets would arrive.
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Post by chehystpewpur on Oct 10, 2019 21:27:29 GMT -5
hmm. those pics got here before i finished typing lol. good timing this will give me much to sleep on tonite. the br9hs is a little shorter reach than the br7hs but then with the br9es the threads would be protruding some and thats supposed to be a nono. but if a plug isnt putting the spark at the right spot above a piston especially on a squish band head the ignition wont be complete or will be turbulent causing a motor to act funny or have reduced power. i am deff going to test tomorrow and will let you know what i find out unless its pretty obvious that it wont work. the piston doesnt have a very large dome so with the depth of the combustion chamber on these guys the longer plug just may be right. maybe. and would explain why some vendors are making it a big point to use the longer plug but also a colder plug to protect it from the heat. a smooth even flame through the combustion chamber will produce the most power and efficiency in theory. but in practice sometimes turbulence actually makes a motor run better? the theory behind squish bands works like that and so does channeling some heads to improve power. the loss in material in the heads is negligible compared to the power and efficiency gains. squish or cutting small channels can aid in fuel atomization and mixing with the air some for a more efficient burn. drive.google.com/drive/folders/0By2rcNqfITkKQUVESUlIOFNaOW8?usp=sharingits hard to see most of the trenching or channels cut into the head in these pictures as there was alot of miles on the cylinder before i messed with the head to test that theory. it was an old school trick and it actually worked quite well for me but idk if id recommend it on one of the stage6 kits we have because there is alot more r&d into proper combustion done on our kits. but on the low power kit i tried it on it worked really well. the piston looks scary but was in good condition on the top it was just carbon deposits from over oiling and after the trenches it started cleaning those deposits off and thats why you see the flaking that looks scary. if you zoom in on the top of the piston you can actually see the marks from the combustion waves leaving the plug and the slight swirl that it caused to happen which was causing the cylinder to clean its self back up.
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Post by christopher on Oct 12, 2019 13:28:04 GMT -5
Pin gauge set arrived, Amazon had them to me in 48 hours or less. Checked all my 90, 92.5 and 95 main jets. All measure correctly, the sizes are binned up so I don't know which jet I was using exactly, I have a few of each. Not sure about that first black plug, my first startup just to do a heat cycle was using a used BR7 plug so any extra assembly lube should have fouled that one. Will be pulling the current installed 90 to check it, if correct going to try a 92.5.
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Post by christopher on Oct 14, 2019 14:31:37 GMT -5
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Post by christopher on Oct 15, 2019 5:53:17 GMT -5
Yikes, I did a test run last evening, wide open flat ground watching the temperature gauge and tachometer, I had been holding back trying to get some mileage on the rings etc. The Stage6 sport pro loves rpm as evident from dyno graphs in a few places, the Next R isn’t holding it back. Hit 50 mph gps speed I was surprised. The temperature climbed into the 325 range pretty quickly also, rpm was 11,000 + .
A Mikuni VM16 has no issue supplying enough fuel and air to move this thing to 50.
Still running the factory oil pump adjusted to a close to max setting. Going to move it to about a max setting to see if I notice a change in temperature and plug.
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Post by christopher on Oct 15, 2019 19:06:48 GMT -5
My Dellorto 19 PHBG Race Edition is sitting on the dining room table. Has the 4 stroke atomizer in it. Ordered the two stroke insert and atomizer from Treats. Used but in original box. Doesn’t even smell like gas, inside is new looking. Previous owner said it was used for maybe an hour.
I ordered a main jet set to hopefully get in the ball park. Goes by 5 increments, will get smaller increments when I get a narrower range to try. I’ve seen people with everything from 72 to a 95 main jet. Going to start with a 95 again and see if it will run.
Waiting on getting the variator and hoca rear torque drive dialed in. My 0-35 times very from 6-8 seconds. Really depends on when the 1-2 shift happens, the straight groove Hoca out to take care of that..
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