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Post by lindhe on Oct 22, 2009 1:00:00 GMT -5
Hey all! I'm the proud owner of a 2002 Malaguti Phantom F12, liquid cooled. gallery.mac.com/lindhe#100302/IMG_0465&bgcolor=blackIt's been upgraded with a 70cc Athena kit, added air filter, Leo Vince SP3 exhaust and the carb has been enlarged to I believe 18mm or something like that. End result is a very speedy (accelerates pretty well, and top speed around 55 mph), but LOUD little machine  2 questions: 1) Is there a way to make this puppy a little less LOUD without losing acceleration/horsepower? I don't mind losing top speed cos I never really go faster than 45 mph or so anyways. 2) Are those modifications I made "end game" with a machine like this, or is there a way to add even more horsepower? I would ideally love for it to pop a wheelie at takeoff unless I lean forward Any help/thoughts appreciated! // Martin |
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Post by 190mech on Oct 22, 2009 4:37:21 GMT -5
Cool Machine!You can repack the muffler with new fiberglass,but
a lot of that racket is coming from the intake.You may be able to shield or relocate the filter to quiet it down.There is a quiet air
filter on the market also.
CVT tuning will get you those wheelies and a bit more top end
also.That takes a good bit of trial and error though,but worth the effort when its tuned..
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 22, 2009 6:09:59 GMT -5
The Leo Vince SP3 is supposed to be a reasonably quiet exhaust, so unless it's leaking or pretty old it shouldn't be the cause of lots of excess noise. If it does need to be repacked, FMF and others make good muffler packing that may be a little quieter. The air box 190 is referring to is the Motoforce air box or something like it. I've never tried it to know if it works, but it's supposed to keep it pretty quiet without restricting flow. You could also try to get a UNI replacement filter for your stock air box and rejet accordingly. It might make a little difference in power, but that would probably be the quietest option. Your mods definitely aren't the ceiling for your scoot's potential. As 190 said, CVT tuning can make a nice difference. Swap roller weights, contra springs, and clutch springs to get the best results. If that's not enough you can mod the stock variator or get an aftermarket variator. You can lighten your stock clutch or buy a performance one. Venting the CVT cover around the clutch can help keep your launches good for the whole ride if you experience any clutch fade. If you did some research, you could modify your current porting, timing, and exhaust for more power. If you ever wanted to go farther, you could get a more race oriented cylinder kit and exhaust. You could get carbon fiber reeds or a whole new reed cage. Maybe try a reed spacer to get a little more midrange power. Take a look around my tech section and maybe that will give you some ideas. |
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Post by lindhe on Oct 22, 2009 21:33:31 GMT -5
Cool Machine!You can repack the muffler with new fiberglass,but a lot of that racket is coming from the intake.You may be able to shield or relocate the filter to quiet it down.There is a quiet air filter on the market also. Yes - it's very cool, I love it Thanks for the tips - I'll look into messing with the air filter... Not familiar with "CVT tuning" - is it expensive? |
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Post by lindhe on Oct 22, 2009 21:42:29 GMT -5
Thanks for your detailed reply! The SP3 is brand new, so that can't be the problem. Maybe i'm just a wuss because I was used to the stock air filter and exhaust. It's really not a big deal - let's scrap the whole loudness problem as a problem. What you guys made me more interested in by reading your replies is the increased power! AS for the variator weights - I do believe the mechanic that installed the SP3 and bored out the carb did some fiddling with that already. I remember him saying something like "This is a good as it's gonna get without messing with the clutch - and I wouldn't recommend doing that"....I'm not familiar with "CVT tuning" is this clutch-related? Can it make a big difference in my setup? Would it be madness to install even higher cc - like 85 cc kit? Since the scooter is loud already - should consider installing a "real" racing pipe on there instead? Or is the SP3 supposed to be a racing pipe? Sorry for all the questions - I'm just really excited about the idea that I could possibly make my baby even more awesome All help appreciated! // Martin |
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Post by lindhe on Oct 22, 2009 22:09:30 GMT -5
There are many terms I'm unfamiliar with here - and I totally understand if you send me off to do homework elsewhere - but I'll take my chances for definitions: "CVT" "Clutch fade" "Porting" "Reed cage" You guys publish a dictionary? |
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Post by stepthrutuner on Oct 23, 2009 0:26:38 GMT -5
CVT: Continuously Variable Transmission. The type transmission that most modern scooters have. A belt driven transmission with variable diameter pulleys.
Clutch Fade: A lessening of clutch engagement grip due to heat.
Porting: Altering the smoothness and flow area of intake or exhaust paths before and after poppet style valves in four stroke motors.
In two stroke motors it usually refers to changing the heights and widths of exhaust and transfer channels to alter the timing and therefore the power characteristics of the engine. Smoothing of the flow surfaces is usually involved also.
Reed Cage: There are three basic methods of two stroke mixture induction from the carburetor to the crankcase of the two stroke engine. Piston-ported where the piston opens and closes this pathway. Rotary induction where a rotating disc with an open segment opens and closes this path. And case/reed induction where the path directly into the crankcase is facilitated by a flapping one-way or check style valve operated by the vacuum created by the ascending piston. The reed cage is the supporting structure that the flapping elements(thin stainless steel, plastic or carbon fiber.... or some layered combination of these) are mounted on. There are windows in the cage that the flappers(reeds) normally cover except when a vacuum in the crankcase lifts them open. Reed cage is kind of a misnomer as the reeds are not really "caged" or "contained" but rest on the exterior of the "cage". This cage rests just under the intake manifold and can be lifted out of the crankcase once the intake manifold is removed
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 23, 2009 7:07:58 GMT -5
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Post by 2strokd on Oct 23, 2009 8:25:05 GMT -5
This should help you get the clutch off the torque driver. Thanks to Brent this is the method i have always used, only thing i do different is hold the clutch with my feet to remove the nut after i loosen it with the vise. 49ccscoot.com/clutchvideo.htmlAfter you get the clutch off you will see the 3 springs on the back of it. You can use a snapring tool or (like i use) a pair of smaller vise grips to remove and install the springs. Hope this helps. Thanks for the video Brent |
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 25, 2009 8:48:35 GMT -5
Since that video, I bought the big 38mm socket and use it to work on the clutch. Either way works great though.
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Post by lindhe on Oct 26, 2009 12:27:07 GMT -5
Thanks all for your input and ideas. I still don't understand a fraction of what you're saying - but I'll print this thread out and put it in front of a mechanic Much appreciated! |
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Post by 2strokd on Oct 26, 2009 13:23:23 GMT -5
Stick with it, all these terms, names and such will start to grow on ya when your bit by the scooter bug  |
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Post by lindhe on Oct 28, 2009 12:01:33 GMT -5
Would it be insane to consider upgrading to even higher cc?
It's 70cc now - how big can I install? 100cc?
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 28, 2009 15:52:25 GMT -5
You can go bigger than 70cc, but it get more complicated than just bolting on a big bore kit. You can get a larger bore kit, 50-54mm, to up the displacement to 80-90ish cc. To do that, you should split the cases and have them bored to accept the big jug.
You can also use your Athena kit and add a stroker crankshaft to get more displacement. You can get them from 42-47mm to make your engine up to around 80cc. You'll need to use a spcer or spacers under the cylinder to keep the ports in the right place and keep the piston from hitting the head. The cases have to be machined to accep the larger crankshaft.
You can combine a stroker crank with a larger cylinder and get your displacement up to almost 110cc.
Since you've got a nice setup now that should make decent power, I'd only suggest going bigger big bore or stroker crank if you really wanna spend many hours working on your scooter. If you don't do your own machine work, it's gonna cost probably $100-150 just in getting the cases enlarged for both the crank and jug. You'll need specialty tools to split the cases and re-install the crank. You need a press to do bearings or you'll need to heat and freeze the bearings and crank to get them to slide on. You might need a bigger carburetor and intake manifold. You could need a new pipe. Long story short, it could get expensive.
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Post by lindhe on Oct 28, 2009 21:51:11 GMT -5
Ah excellent - thanks for that, I can now retire the >70cc plans forever and focus on updating the transmission/clutch/variator thingies instead |
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