|
|
Post by bazhee on May 15, 2016 8:59:52 GMT -5
Hello guys and scoot freaks! Alright, I bought my scoot in 2014 and made 4500 km with it until now. I havent been ok with it's speed and acceleration.  It was accelerating okay but the v max was 66kmh. I wanted to make it faster and Louder  Alright so 1 week ago I went to the best scooter service and shop in my city and bought all new HQ and Performance transmission parts and they installed them for me. This is what I bought: Polini BLUE Clutch Spring Polini Green Springs (the little ones) Polini Rollers (Not sure about the weight but they are definetly harder then the old stock ones) Polini Belt ( I guess it is a 16mm ) The acceleration was slower and I got a max speed of 72kmh O.o. So I spend like 70 Euro on parts and end up with 5kmh. After this I was so dissapointed and decided to make more modifications. Because modifications are not restricted in my country and I can put everything I want on my bike I bought a new pipe ( Giannelli Extra Carbon ) for 60EUR  and bought a China 77cc KIT from the same place for 60EUR. They installed it for me and I went to try the bike today and It was going up to 72 KMH AGAIN. The only improvement was the acceleration, it was more powerful. I asked the guy that worked on my bike and he said he will have to do some adjustments on the CVT but he said the scooty would go around 75kmh v max and have good acceleration. Are you kidding me man a 70cc kit with a pipe and couldnt hit at least 80kmh? The service guy tells me how the bike is really bad quality it cant go faster bla bla..? A friend of mine has a Garelli GSP50 and it has a stock 50cc cyl and a classy 50cc 2stroke pipe and it pushes 80 without a problem. My scooter has a replica minarelli engine and there should be lots of modifications able to be made on it as on the Aerox. I know it'a scooter sh*t quality but there has to be something more to be done. I already spend 190EUR on it & still no big and better improvements. I can see guys putting just a pipe and lighter rollers on their 50ccs and going fast like wind, till mine is like an empty can.. I need help guys. Is the problem in the CVT? Do I need performance Variator and clutch? I want to get around 95 kmh of top speed with a decent acceleration.. |
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on May 15, 2016 10:10:32 GMT -5
For the other folks here that may be used to MPH like me, I'll just post this to save them the conversions. 70KPH = ~43.5MPH, 80KPH = ~50MPH, 95KPH = 59MPH 70K does sound slow for a bored and piped Minarelli. The bad quality scoot comment seems like nonsense to me. Sure, Chinese scoots aren't top quality. That said, I've never put a genuine Yamaha engine in any of mine and own very few high dollar/big name parts and that hasn't stopped me from achieving much higher speeds than you're seeing. Did you pick out the CVT parts and just have them installed, or did you ask for a tune and buy what was installed? IMO you shouldn't pick springs and weights based on what you like or you think should work. Springs and weights should be selected by actual tuning processes. Check out the CVT section here : www.49ccscoot.com/faq/faq.htmlA simple start would be to figure out if you're revving high or low and to mark the variator with a marker so you can see how much belt travel you're getting after a ride. |
|
|
|
Post by bazhee on May 15, 2016 11:08:28 GMT -5
For the other folks here that may be used to MPH like me, I'll just post this to save them the conversions. 70KPH = ~43.5MPH, 80KPH = ~50MPH, 95KPH = 59MPH 70K does sound slow for a bored and piped Minarelli. The bad quality scoot comment seems like nonsense to me. Sure, Chinese scoots aren't top quality. That said, I've never put a genuine Yamaha engine in any of mine and own very few high dollar/big name parts and that hasn't stopped me from achieving much higher speeds than you're seeing. Did you pick out the CVT parts and just have them installed, or did you ask for a tune and buy what was installed? IMO you shouldn't pick springs and weights based on what you like or you think should work. Springs and weights should be selected by actual tuning processes. Check out the CVT section here : www.49ccscoot.com/faq/faq.htmlA simple start would be to figure out if you're revving high or low and to mark the variator with a marker so you can see how much belt travel you're getting after a ride. Alright, thank you for replying to me. I left the scooter at the service at Thursday, and I am getting it back from there in monday. I will see the differences after he does the "small adjustments" to the CVT and see how will it pull and cruise. It's clearly impossible that I cant get a decent acceleration and 90kmh vmax, from a 70CC bigbore and a giannelli pipe.. I was really nervous yesterday when I went testing the scoot because it was reving decently I guess, it reved maximum 9k RPM at max speed of 72kmh but the acceleration was still and powerful. If it stays like this what should I do first to adjust the scoot to get more v/max? Should I emmediately start re-adjusting the cvt? |
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on May 15, 2016 13:09:09 GMT -5
I'd mark the variator first to get an idea of where you're at. If there's a lot of travel left, then we'll need to figure out why.
|
|
|
|
Post by 'O'Verse on May 15, 2016 13:19:47 GMT -5
 Your right you should have gotten a little more out of all your upgrades. If Ive read everything correctly you haven't upgraded your carb yet? Main jet? Carb size? Is your mechanic testing your scooter out after he installs a new mod? Ask him if your getting full belt travel on your variator? Back to your carburetor... Usually a bbk and performance pipe require a bigger main jet. Ask your mechanic what main jet was stock and what main jet he up jetted to? What did he do to the air filter to increase airflow? Was the stock air filter adequate enough to handle the new pipe and bbk? A lot of us prefer to work on our own scoots for this reason alone of trial and error. One mod at a time. Once you install something see if there's anything you can do to squeeze the most out of that mod alone. Before moving on to the next. 
|
|
|
|
Post by bazhee on May 16, 2016 12:26:20 GMT -5
Hi there, alright I am so frustrated now. I called him today and he said: Oh dontworry I'm still working on it and have to do some stuff around the oil pump and the carburator. I will call you during the day. He didn't. I am going to the service tommorow to check out what the hell is happening right there.
Alright, I had asked a guy that has the same scoot and he got something like 79 kmh vmax. That is 49MPH
He told met hat minarelli water cooled replicas have a "longer" transmission? My bike is minarelli air cooled replica, so is it true it has a shorter transmission? What should I do about it? Is that the problem with the max speed of the scoot?
|
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on May 16, 2016 16:09:29 GMT -5
My air cooled Chinese stuff does just fine. I can't tell you for certain if the LC is different, but I'd imagine they just change the cylinder and such for LC. There are short and long case engines, but your big scoot shoudl have the long case. There are also different gear sets. Some have very deep 13.55:1 gears. 10.13:1 versions are better for speed.
|
|
|
|
Post by bazhee on May 17, 2016 10:07:01 GMT -5
Alright guys I just got my bike today. This is the deal, he installed a 80cc chinese bbk I guess. This is how does my bike act: It starts slowly and grabs lot of power after 4/5k rpm.. So it accelerates really fast but goes straight to 70kmh and stops accelerating  I can feel the bike having more power to do more vmax. The guy that worked on it says that the cylinder kit cant provide more v max... Any tips and tricks on to getting more v-max? It does not have a start because it catches on 3.000 rpm so if I add heavier rollers I guess the bike wouldnt be even able to start.. |
|
|
|
Post by vlatx on May 17, 2016 11:37:53 GMT -5
Replace the vario,it is the biggest restrictor on the bike,put koso/malossi or polini vario for more belt travel an more v-max
|
|
|
|
Post by bazhee on May 18, 2016 12:14:29 GMT -5
Will the vario make the bike catch on higher RPM? Also should I add a better clutch when adding a variator?
My consumption now should be very higher and as far as I know by installing a variator it should suck even more..
|
|
|
|
Post by bazhee on May 19, 2016 13:51:36 GMT -5
I talked with the guy who worked on my scoot. He said this kit is better in the low rpm zone, so it gains it's max potential at 5500 - 7500 rpm. He said I should send my old cylinder which is 49ccm to a service in another city where they will "laser drill"  it to fit a 42mm piston. He said the quality on that one is better and I will get better vmax? Is it true lol? Also my pipe is so fu*king loud  , I tested it and it's 10.7 Decibel... Will adding more "crystal wool" inside of the top make it quieter? |
|
|
|
Post by vlatx on May 19, 2016 16:53:03 GMT -5
7.500 ? dont ask top speed from that kind of RPM
|
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on May 22, 2016 5:10:13 GMT -5
Will the vario make the bike catch on higher RPM? Also should I add a better clutch when adding a variator? A good variator should keep RPM in a more narrow range. These little engines don't make a lot of power, so it's beneficial to stay in the powerband as much as you can. Roller/slider weight will still let you change how much it revs. I talked with the guy who worked on my scoot. He said this kit is better in the low rpm zone, so it gains it's max potential at 5500 - 7500 rpm. He said I should send my old cylinder which is 49ccm to a service in another city where they will "laser drill" it to fit a 42mm piston. He said the quality on that one is better and I will get better vmax? Is it true lol? If the current cylinder and piston are sealing and setup well, I don't see how going to a smaller 42mm will improve speed unless it's better designed as a system. Some end up low compression, depending on the head used. Figuring out how to get a good compression ratio could be beneficial. It woudl be expensive if you rely on a mechanic to do the work. It takes a good bit of time to figure out all clearances and where compression will end up. |
|
|
|
Post by bazhee on May 23, 2016 13:21:37 GMT -5
Will the vario make the bike catch on higher RPM? Also should I add a better clutch when adding a variator? A good variator should keep RPM in a more narrow range. These little engines don't make a lot of power, so it's beneficial to stay in the powerband as much as you can. Roller/slider weight will still let you change how much it revs. I talked with the guy who worked on my scoot. He said this kit is better in the low rpm zone, so it gains it's max potential at 5500 - 7500 rpm. He said I should send my old cylinder which is 49ccm to a service in another city where they will "laser drill" it to fit a 42mm piston. He said the quality on that one is better and I will get better vmax? Is it true lol? If the current cylinder and piston are sealing and setup well, I don't see how going to a smaller 42mm will improve speed unless it's better designed as a system. Some end up low compression, depending on the head used. Figuring out how to get a good compression ratio could be beneficial. It woudl be expensive if you rely on a mechanic to do the work. It takes a good bit of time to figure out all clearances and where compression will end up. Okay I am driving my scoot as much as I can because I was told from the service that the kit should "develope" in the first 500-1000 km so I am not draining it as much as I can to top speed.. I drive usually between 5500 and 7000 rpm at speeds of 40 to 60 kmh.(this is what the service guy told me to do. He said don't drive with constant throttle, you should accelerate more often?? is it true? My scoot is starting to catch at around 3000 rpm and I am but not very happy with the driving experience.. I cant explain the situation right but when I accelerate slowly the scoot sounds terrible and does not deliver enough power until it gets around 6000 rpm where it gets amazing power and pulls like hell, but before these rpm I get very unpowerful throttle response, the only way I get a instant response and pull is when I pull the throttle full very fast. Otherwise when driving at lower speeds without bigger throttle the scoot sounds like: braparapraprbparpaprapa  I cant even explain it but it's not good and also my exhaust is very very very loud so that makes it extra problematic.. Now as I've seen my scoot must be limited at 9500 rpm by it's stock CDI . Is this high rpm for a 70cc chinese kit? I have accelerated couple times with full hrottle and it stops right there and I can feel that it can deliver more power but it doesnt go past 9500? Also is that low-power situation at lower rpm because of the exhaust? My stock one did not do this.. Read more: 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/15846/baotian-bt49qt-28c-tuning-help#ixzz49VLGhQGV |
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on May 23, 2016 13:38:29 GMT -5
It is a good idea to vary throttle position at first. I don't do much breaking in though. The first ride, maybe 20 miles, and then it's done for me.
I don't really know much about your exhaust, but the dead low end and then harder pull at higher revs is common of piped 2Ts. When it starts pulling, that's "hitting the pipe". Till then, it makes little power and runs rich and sputters if it's tuned safe in that range. Everything should be OK at 9,500RPM. An easy test is to rev it on the stand just long enough to see if it indeed stops at 9500RPM.
|
|
Your right you should have gotten a little more out of all your upgrades. If Ive read everything correctly you haven't upgraded your carb yet? Main jet? Carb size? Is your mechanic testing your scooter out after he installs a new mod? Ask him if your getting full belt travel on your variator? Back to your carburetor... Usually a bbk and performance pipe require a bigger main jet. Ask your mechanic what main jet was stock and what main jet he up jetted to? What did he do to the air filter to increase airflow? Was the stock air filter adequate enough to handle the new pipe and bbk? A lot of us prefer to work on our own scoots for this reason alone of trial and error. One mod at a time. Once you install something see if there's anything you can do to squeeze the most out of that mod alone. Before moving on to the next. 
I can feel the bike having more power to do more vmax. The guy that worked on it says that the cylinder kit cant provide more v max... Any tips and tricks on to getting more v-max? It does not have a start because it catches on 3.000 rpm so if I add heavier rollers I guess the bike wouldnt be even able to start.. 
it to fit a 42mm piston. He said the quality on that one is better and I will get better vmax? Is it true lol? Also my pipe is so fu*king loud 
, I tested it and it's 10.7 Decibel... Will adding more "crystal wool" inside of the top make it quieter? 
I cant even explain it but it's not good and also my exhaust is very very very loud so that makes it extra problematic.. Now as I've seen my scoot must be limited at 9500 rpm by it's stock CDI . Is this high rpm for a 70cc chinese kit? I have accelerated couple times with full hrottle and it stops right there and I can feel that it can deliver more power but it doesnt go past 9500?