Need Help On Dual-Sport / Adventure Bikes, Please.

[aeroxbud]

Jun 5, 2019 2:38:01 GMT -5 ThaiGyro said:

Senna1Rossi, I just came across this thread. Not sure if you ever got a good answer, or what you bought, if any thing.

Here are some thoughts for anyone who GAS: I now have a 2015 Honda CRF250L. Looks like a CRF, acts like motard or street bike, depending on tire/wheels. It will never be an MX'r.

For off road with good knobbies at 21"/18", it is a decent "Trail" bike. Not a MX bike at all.
With 17" fat width rim spokes, it is super nice on the road and not bad in the rain. Super-moto style, as I am currently riding it. (I often hand groove for rain)

Many will tell you that bigger is better. (350's/400's/650's) IMO that is very subjective. I rode mine with stock gearing on 17"s, over 800km in one day, on the highway. The seat is not great for that. My tiny petrol tank meant 6 stops for fuel. Never an issue with rpm. Rode around 6500 rpm the whole day, in the heat.

My Yamaha WR250 was a better off-road bike...horrible on pavement. I find the CRF250L has just the right give and take for it's design. I call that 75% on and 25% off. Off meaning trails, not MX or rock climbing or hill climbing. The complaints I hear are from those who use it the other say around. They bought the wrong bike, I think.

Regardless, I love mine! I commute with it for longer drives. (Scooter for local) I can get off on a canal road or trail and still have a blast. I just ordered a CBR300R head pipe, (ala dirt track style) plus two CBR cams and a 38mm throttle body. I was "challenged" by some doubters that I can get that 250 to 25 bhp. They go BBK and crazy mods to get 24. Easy money!

My secret weapon is proper design, balancing,(crank) port polishing and ceramic bearings. Never done ceramics on a CRF250L before. All above mods cost under $150, plus my own labor...except the ceramics which look to be around $500.

Let me know if you are still considering a dual sport...after a few years, hehe! I have ridden most everything, crashed many and blown up a few. Since I quit road racing at age 50, I have spent my time with dual sports or in the shop...OK, OK...I have a TRX850 too!

Do you get a different spec on the CRF, than we get in Europe? The version we have here is 23bhp in stock form. I know some of our bikes are in a different spec to the US models.

[ThaiGyro]

Hahaha! aeroxbud...nearly every single CRF250L is the same engine, though upgraded a tiny bit in 2017. There is no difference in the USA versus Euro spec versus world models. Honda! Smart!

I can tell you with high confidence, that if you are seeing an OEM stock Honda CRF250L advertised as 23 bhp, that someone is shitting you.

Cases in point...and I have many: A pre-2017 has, at best 18 bhp. Tested many, many, many. Hondsa loves to say 23 or 24, but hates to say that is engine testing. So, if you see 23? Engine hp... My modded 250 just tested at 24.4 bhp with porting and compression boost and mapping.

I am doing CBR300R upgrades to my 250...OEM pipe, 38mm throttle body, CBR cams. All bolt in fun...however, I must upgrade my ECU. I use an API Tech, not a Honda. My current API can be upgraded to CBR spec. No issues...and I tune on my phone app!

Of note: The CEO of API Tech is a retired HRC Moto GP tuning guru from Japan. He lives about 20 KM from me....has a dyno.

THe CBR300R engines can do 30+ bhp in OEM form. The CBR250R, maybe 28. A good CRF? the 2017 we tested barely made 21 bhp. (Honda upgraded the pipe, the throttle, but not the cams.). BTW...a CBR250/300 and CRF250 are the same engine. The 300 has a longer stroke, but only really a 286cc.

My bike will eventually become a 305cc. If needed. You can bore and stroke them, bolt in wise, to make a 348cc.

Oh!  Nearly forgot...all Honda CRF 250 L machines are made here in Rayong, Thailand...for the whole world. That is why I bought mine. No taxes nor import duties.

[aeroxbud]

There has been a trend in recent years for modern bikes to make less power than even some of the 80's versions. Honda and Kawasaki seem to be some of the worse offenders. Could it be emissions related?
My CBF250 is supposed to make 24 horse power. Probably basically the same engine.

[ThaiGyro]

Surely emissions! Many think that the engineers are simply dumb or saving money...NO WAY! They are masters at getting power for money spent.

The issue is: "What Power"? The CRF is a perfect example. Super cheap to buy, but near everyone wants it to be a CRF. It is NOT! Ohhh, it looks like one, sort of. It makes OK power, LOW END, super good on fuel and gets around amazingly! But it is an emission darling, for certain. The part no one will tell...why does a CBR250R get 24 hp and the CRF250L 18?  Or better...CBR300 get 28?.  Only part differences found to date: Cams, 2mm bigger throttle body...some rather strange air box mods, (Shape, not resonator) and ECU.

So...I ordered the suspect parts...not too confusing, but the OEM CBR300R exhaust must have a secret.  Soooo, I bought one to cut up. (well first, maybe IR scan) IDGAS about the CAT chamber, yet. But dimensions and flow tests are forthcoming, right up to that moose-shit muffler thing. Ohh, it is important to the flow, but not in the plan, so need to pass gas and measure.

I switched brain waves with my CRF-L. MOTARD, OK. Off-road, OK. Streetbike? Pretty good! Therefore, I am building a Honda Scrambler. A CRF250-SL, I will call it. Can do the 305CC, but want to squeeze the shite from the 250 first.

It's coming!!! I see dead people...on Kawasaki's. I will soon outrun the Honda CBR300...by using it's tuning goodies, minus 80+ pounds.  Exhaust and cams and throttle should arrive tomorrow or Monday. The ECU mods might take a few more days...

[jackrides]

Glad I bookmarked this thread!