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Post by kagetenshi on Aug 11, 2016 20:02:57 GMT -5
Well, if a 25 up mercury 2t can move an 800+ lb boat at 30 MPH (according to the marine speedo that cost us $40 online, I forget where), I assume that a 2t is more about torque than horsepower. I think semi vs the avg work truck with the same load and horsepower, ie. Tractor pull style. More torque will usually win unless the other has severely over compensated with horsepower. At least that is my observation and conjecture.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 20:08:13 GMT -5
Well, if a 25 up mercury 2t can move an 800+ lb boat at 30 MPH (according to the marine speedo that cost us $40 online, I forget where), I assume that a 2t is more about torque than horsepower. I think semi vs the avg work truck with the same load and horsepower, ie. Tractor pull style. More torque will usually win unless the other has severely over compensated with horsepower. At least that is my observation and conjecture. Hmmm...care to put some money on that? Ha ha. The 2T is all about HP. You can look at dyno vids of a small scoot 2T making 25 HP or more. The same sized 4T might make 5. My money is on Brent. Bill |
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larrball
Scoot Enthusiast
2016 Genuine Scooter Rough House Sport Ti
Posts: 295
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Post by larrball on Aug 11, 2016 20:18:11 GMT -5
I like both, Weighing in at an outstanding soaking wet weight at the all you can eat Golden corral i might be able to pull off 120 lbs.
So scooters like me.
This current scooter i bought is a 2T and i like the fact that i do not need to change the oil or do a valve adjustment.
Now the up front cost is more but im O.K with that and given i payed Dealer price+tax ($1,900 out the door)with only 52 miles on it i think i did well.
I was shooting for the new 2016 Zuma, but for the price i got the GS Roughhouse sport.. Happy camper i be.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 20:22:08 GMT -5
I am a 4T guy and I always tease the 2T guys about sounding like weed wackers but, in a straight up similar cc drag race, it will be no contest. The 2T will dominate. There are Youtube vids of 2T guys popping wheelies at about 30 mph by just goosing the throttle...not popping the clutch...these are cvts! That takes a goodly amount of energy to be able to do...much more than my 4T has in her.
Bill
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larrball
Scoot Enthusiast
2016 Genuine Scooter Rough House Sport Ti
Posts: 295
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Post by larrball on Aug 11, 2016 20:31:08 GMT -5
I am a 4T guy and I always tease the 2T guys about sounding like weed wackers but, in a straight up similar cc drag race, it will be no contest. The 2T will dominate. There are Youtube vids of 2T guys popping wheelies at about 30 mph by just goosing the throttle...not popping the clutch...these are cvts! That takes a goodly amount of energy to be able to do...much more than my 4T has in her. Bill Well Bill they are a weed whackers with 2 wheels. Every time the neighbors mow the lawn with the old lawnboy mower, i have to go look to see if the cover on my bike is still on.  |
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Post by kagetenshi on Aug 11, 2016 20:43:14 GMT -5
Popping that wheelie at 30 seems like torque to me. Drag racers use roughly the same principal. Though the difference in power can be overcome with shear horsepower. Most big rigs have roughly 800 horsepower but those suckers can pull insane amount of weight at decent speeds due to torque.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 20:47:18 GMT -5
Popping that wheelie at 30 seems like torque to me. Drag racers use roughly the same principal. Though the difference in power can be overcome with shear horsepower. Most big rigs have roughly 800 horsepower but those suckers can pull insane amount of weight at decent speeds due to torque. Well, more HP, more torque so I suppose we are saying the same thing. But yes, back in the 60's when 2 cars had 300 HP and one had 190 ft. lbs of torque and the other had 400, guess which one won? So I agree torque is where it's at but most of the time, the more HP the more torque is available. Bill |
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Post by kagetenshi on Aug 11, 2016 20:50:09 GMT -5
When it comes down to science, there is more potential kinetic energy in fryer oil than in gasoline. Apply that same principal to a 2t, which runs on a mix of gasoline and oil vs a 4t which runs strictly on gasoline. The combustion of a 50cc 2t's cylinder worth of gasoline and oil mix has more power than a 4t of the same design. Thus forcing the piston down with more force. That would, theoretically, be considered having more torque. Conversely, it also allows for faster rotation of the crankshaft and more horsepower. If a 4t could achieve the same rpm's without exploding, which would win?
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Post by Chris Cristini on Aug 11, 2016 20:57:14 GMT -5
A supercharged 4T with large exhaust valves could achieve 2 stroke potential even a well designed SC scoot engine.
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larrball
Scoot Enthusiast
2016 Genuine Scooter Rough House Sport Ti
Posts: 295
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Post by larrball on Aug 11, 2016 21:10:58 GMT -5
When it comes down to science, there is more potential kinetic energy in fryer oil than in gasoline. Apply that same principal to a 2t, which runs on a mix of gasoline and oil vs a 4t which runs strictly on gasoline. The combustion of a 50cc 2t's cylinder worth of gasoline and oil mix has more power than a 4t of the same design. Thus forcing the piston down with more force. That would, theoretically, be considered having more torque. Conversely, it also allows for faster rotation of the crankshaft and more horsepower. If a 4t could achieve the same rpm's without exploding, which would win? If that was true then a diesel engine would be a good choice? No, not unless you could have 'power' at every stroke. Bedtime for me, i forgot im getin old now--poof ! |
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Post by kagetenshi on Aug 11, 2016 21:51:52 GMT -5
Diesel creates a higher amount of btu's per volume than gasoline does. And it is due to the larger presence of oil in the fuel. Btu's, calories, same thing. Say you eat a fast food Burger. Say you eat the same weight of said Burger in celery. Which of the two contained more calories? But maybe I am having too much fun with this topic...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 22:08:39 GMT -5
At first, I thought you might be wrong but then, I was thinking of the cracking towers that oil refineries use. All the trash stuff and less refined products come off of the lower levels...like diesel, kerosene, etc. Then, as you move up the distilling tower, you get you gasoline...at various octane levels, then higher still, you get benzene, ether, acetone...(I am not sure which is the right order on these) so, the more refined an oil product is, the more has been removed from it. So, now I think you may be correct although I am no chemist.
So, if I run a premix in my 4T, will I get more power? (I think I already know the answer to this)
Bill
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 12, 2016 5:35:00 GMT -5
I am a member on an energy research Site, and over there, last year I believe, 2 guys had a race of their solar electric bikes. (One guy was in Australia and the other was in England I believe) Both used the same gps software and when they made a video, they posted to youtube with a split screen showing both bikes and a count down to 0, meaning GO! They raced up to 30 mph and you could watch the speed on each screen to see who was winning and who won. Obviously, one guy had to send his video to the other guy and it was mixed together but, it made for an interesting "race" video that really did pit one bike against the other and the clock...just not in real time. Maybe you guys could do something like this? Unless one of you is "Chicken". (Ha ha) Maybe even place a small wager on it or just bragging rights? Bill I have an iphone. No service, just for wi-fi, so I'm not sure if it works or not for that. If it does, I could do it for fun. We could have a whole forum race and put the top 2T against the top 4T under X displacement. There are some fellas here with 70-80cc 2T builds that should absolutely crush my times so it would be really fun to see them against 4Ts. I don't know how much participation we'd get though. We already have a speed list where you can see how 2Ts and 4Ts of various sizes are stacking up when proof is given of their speeds : 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/11206/scoot-speed-listI have people tell me regularly in YouTube comments that their 4T TaoTaos and such go anywhere from 55-70MPH with a BBK. Not sure why those fellas never show up to get on the list. |
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Post by iwannascoot on Aug 12, 2016 8:20:37 GMT -5
Notice the fastest 49cc 4t on the speed list goes 40mph. I also wonder why these 60-70mph 50cc 4t scoots are not on the list. Could it be they don't exist?
Billy
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Post by humanshield on Aug 12, 2016 10:10:05 GMT -5
Notice the fastest 49cc 4t on the speed list goes 40mph. I also wonder why these 60-70mph 50cc 4t scoots are not on the list. Could it be they don't exist? Billy They only exist when believing a cheap Chinese speedometer. With my 50mm BBK, A9 cam, 20mm Carb (the real deal) and 20mm BVH, I can hit 47 under ideal conditions. But that's tucked, NO wind, flat ground. Granted...my scoot has huge, rabbit ear, big ass mirrors hanging out in the wind and a trunk on the back that always has 10 lbs of crap in it....and 1/2 mile is the farthest I've ever gone to check top speed. If I took off the mirrors and the rear trunk and went 1 mile I'm sure it'd hit 48mph So stock 4T scoots are NOT gonna do 40 easily on flat ground. I don't care what they say. |
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