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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 27, 2011 12:33:05 GMT -5
I was unaware that you'd be able to pass it off as a scoot at 49cc or with a 49cc engine. That's cool.
Not so sure any official would know it was larger than 49cc if you did end up going that route. Kinda like the 49cc vs 90cc minarelli, you need to know what to look for.
Other than for the sake of not needing to fiddle with anything, you can get cable choke carbs for the pitbike motors. All of my old midbikes had cable choke stock. The enricher is nice, but a choke works better anyway IMO.
I don't know the extent of what the pitbike powerplants can handle, but I ran 50W headlights an LED tail and LED turn signals on one of mine that I tried to get away with street riding on. I didn't have any trouble with it.
I know from first hand experience that you are right on all the linkages. It was a PITA to get anything that worked well for the kart for a shifter. We stuck with a semi-auto.
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Post by detonatortuning on Apr 28, 2011 21:11:10 GMT -5
well here in Indiana the whole unregulated no-ped / scooter class hinges on the vehicle having less than 4 wheels, 49cc, full auto, front and rear brakes and full lights.
until today i WAS looking at a top performance trophy 70cc kit for enough torque and HP below 7,000 for my needs. that may be stage 2, later.
BUT, i happened to run into a cylinder kit and an earlier exhaust comparo in the blog at pedparts.co.uk in the exhaust comparo they used a number of pipes on a dead stock aerox and showed dyno results for them all.
they showed a lower tier "standard look" replacement pipe that changed everything for me.
this thing developed 3+HP at 6,000rpm and peaked near 6.5HP at 7,800rpm. this is just what i need and wanted. i fully expect to be able to cruise my streamliner at 50MPH at about 6,500RPM with that pipe.
So, i believe, a properly built 50cc with stock carb / airbox, good reeds, reed block spacer, and replacement pipe with sprocket final drive is my ticket. it'll need real good vario and clutch tuning but they all do, so that goes without saying really.
if any of you have experiences or cautions that apply PLEASE bring them out soon. otherwise i'm going to start buying parts.
thanks, steve
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 28, 2011 21:43:26 GMT -5
I'm guessing the pipe is something like the Phongeer I have on the Venus or the V8 pipes on eBay. I love the PG on the big motors. More power, about the same noise, not an attention getter. If they work as well on the 49cc as on the 90s, it'll be a good choice.
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Post by detonatortuning on Apr 29, 2011 5:52:21 GMT -5
yeah i'm going to have to do some further searching if i want that particular pipe, pedparts doesn't ship outside the EU.
thanks, steve
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 29, 2011 6:14:10 GMT -5
If you can't find that some other options for "street" pipes that are easy to find would be :
Leo Vince Touring Leo Vince SP3 Leo Vince GP Stage 6 Street
There are more. Take a look around the exhaust database in the 2T tech section. I like my SP3 as well. It does not deliver the low end power of the PG, but then it's kinda hard to make an accurate comparison when one has 90cc torque backing it up.
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Post by detonatortuning on Apr 29, 2011 15:56:21 GMT -5
it SEEMS after ALOT of hunting that the pipe pedparts tested and sells is the Motoforce Plus.
i've found them listed on several vendors, still need to try to varify this and check on availability in the states.
thanks, steve
looking further at the tech section pipe database i'd say that the motoforce, sito plus, sp3 and the GP are all in the same class more or less.
interestingly a couple of the online ads for these pipes claim added low-mid torque coupled with 5MPH top end increase on 50cc engines.
a sito plus ad i saw mentioned very favorable results with the top performance trophy 50cc AND 70cc cylinder, which i've been doing alot of reading on and am pretty impressed with.
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Post by 190mech on Apr 29, 2011 21:13:30 GMT -5
DANG!I just found this interesting build in the "troubleshooting"section!Is it gonna be all composite or tube/composite?Ive wanted to build a light weight frame for a scoot engine as the stock stuff is weak and heavy..(not enough hours in a day!) The ATV's that use the scoot engines have chain final drive,so primary sprockets are available(check ebay under polaris,kasea,ddr,etc) I think "torque" is more important than "HP" figures for your application.. With machine work the 50cc can be upsized to 103,but a mild 70cc kit will likely do the job.. GOOD LUCK!! :thumb:
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Post by lshigham on Apr 30, 2011 5:20:32 GMT -5
it SEEMS after ALOT of hunting that the pipe pedparts tested and sells is the Motoforce Plus.i've found them listed on several vendors, still need to try to varify this and check on availability in the states. thanks, steve looking further at the tech section pipe database i'd say that the motoforce, sito plus, sp3 and the GP are all in the same class more or less. interestingly a couple of the online ads for these pipes claim added low-mid torque coupled with 5MPH top end increase on 50cc engines. a sito plus ad i saw mentioned very favorable results with the top performance trophy 70cc cylinder, which i've been doing alot of reading on and am pretty impressed with. Do you want me to check that with Andy? (the owner of PedParts), he's phoning me this afternoon.
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Post by detonatortuning on Apr 30, 2011 9:49:03 GMT -5
hech yeah, see if he'll ship one over here too.
THANKS, steve
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Post by detonatortuning on Apr 30, 2011 10:29:23 GMT -5
DANG!I just found this interesting build in the "troubleshooting"section!Is it gonna be all composite or tube/composite?Ive wanted to build a light weight frame for a scoot engine as the stock stuff is weak and heavy..(not enough hours in a day!) The ATV's that use the scoot engines have chain final drive,so primary sprockets are available(check ebay under polaris,kasea,ddr,etc) I think "torque" is more important than "HP" figures for your application.. With machine work the 50cc can be upsized to 103,but a mild 70cc kit will likely do the job.. GOOD LUCK!! Hi 190m, i've seen your valuable comments on several forums, thanks for the encouragement. if you look at the www.blueskydsn.com site you'll see the streamliner under the products bar. it's a perimeter frame and composite body. as i stated i have legality issues i'm trying to fulfill with this project. it is fundamentaly important that the first iteration be unasailable from both a technical and legal basis. after they're used to seeing me and tired of stopping me i miht do SOMETHING else, ain't saying what yet : )) thanks again, steve
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Post by lshigham on Apr 30, 2011 11:13:15 GMT -5
hech yeah, see if he'll ship one over here too. THANKS, steve You were right, it's a Motoforce plus without the badge. Unfortunately they don't ship outside the EU for customs and VAT reasons. I would recommend getting one from SA: www.scooter-attack.com/shop/#!/en/Yamaha/Aerox-50-as-from-1999/Exhaust-Systems/Replacement/MF9416620-Exhaust-System-Motoforce-Plus.html
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Post by lshigham on Apr 30, 2011 11:18:05 GMT -5
Oh and don't expect yours to make the same power as an Aerox, they have different porting and the LC certainly helps too.
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Post by detonatortuning on Apr 30, 2011 18:26:44 GMT -5
thanks for the info, and the tip on the aerox.
my only input on the aerox is the pedparts tests which were run on aftermarket cylinders that are readily available.
there ARE some very nice LC conversion sets our there, but i can't talk about that on an open forum : ))
steve
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Post by 190mech on Apr 30, 2011 20:02:23 GMT -5
Steve,Are you building the frame and 'fuselage' yourself?I checked out that website,all 3 wheel electric stuff..I'm still a dinofuel nut! Gotcha on the legality stuff,we'll keep it 50cc from now on..
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Post by detonatortuning on May 1, 2011 6:45:46 GMT -5
190mech,
nope, i have one of those 3 wheel electrathon "aerocoupre" racers and i'm going to put an IC driveline on it.
don't feel restrained to talking just 50cc, it probably WON'T stay that way and gleaning all the info i can is what this thread is about.
i fully agree with the torque issue, sometimes we forget that TRQ x RPM = HP.
if you go to the pedparts site and look at the cylinder comparo you'll see a link to their earlier exhaust review. they were using the same aerox engine that was making whatever power it does BUT the design of the pipes enhanced it at differing RPM ranges.
when you look at the graph you can see that the Motoforce is making noticably more HP down below 7,500 that's because it's dramatically enhancing the TRQ. (HP = TRQ x RPM ) i think all the "street" pipes do this, right now i'm looking for the BEST of them.
there are plenty of 50cc sport cylinders out there too, including some killer LC set ups.coupled with the kind of pipe were talking about any of them should be all i need.
i'm sure you kno wall this i'm just thinking out loud again.
more later, steve
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