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Post by tsimi on Apr 6, 2018 2:40:56 GMT -5
I have never touched anything with a radiator before and I was doing some research regarding filling coolant into the system (radiators). I know I am not there yet but I wonder how do I bleed (let out the air) the LC system? I don't think there is any bleeding screw or bolt.
And how much coolant do I need? And can I use the red or green colored coolant stuff for cars?
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Post by ThaiGyro on Apr 6, 2018 3:20:56 GMT -5
Just my 2 yen worth...I don't use coolant. Never liked the green death and on race bikes it really does nothing. Some use water "wetters"...OK, in a big diesel engine, I can see value there. Cooling systems that hold over 10 gallons or even more.
In a scooter, I think it adds little except cost and environmental problems. Your call, there. Plain distilled water with no minerals is my choice. Cost is super low, can do it often. (I do twice per year on the scooter and the TRX850)
The thing to remember about "Bleeding", is that to eliminate the air, you must have a "high point vent". On a scooter, that is very likely the radiator cap. If you look, it should be above anything else. If not, you must find the high point.
Assuming it is the cap...One easy way to begin air removal, is to fill the radiator until it stops burping. There will still be air in there, but trapped. With the cap off, start your engine. You can see the liquid circulate. As it does, the trapped air can escape. If you are not sure...simply shut it off and let it sit while you drink a beer, then do it again. We call it "burping" for that reason. Your pump is usually the low point in the system, the cap, or often a brass plug in the head is a high point.
Not a big fan of that...one more thing to leak and makes a mess of burping. If you have this arrangement, you must be careful not to remove the plug. Loosen it until it barely leaks. If you have space you can install a nipple and quarter turn valve so you have control. When done your air will be gone and you can put the plug back in. (Engine off)
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 6, 2018 5:32:51 GMT -5
There should be a bolt on the cylinder head close to the hose fitting to use as a vent to help vent the air out. All of the LC motors I’ve had had them. Just fill, vent, top off, run engine and top off again. As far as capacity your going to be well under 2quarts I’m sure. You can use automobile coolant, water or water with a cooling additive like water wetter, purple ice, etc.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Apr 6, 2018 5:38:32 GMT -5
When working on cars, in the 70's and 80's, we would use a 50/50 mix of coolant and water. There is no coolant made that works by itself. You can buy "pre-mix" coolant at 50/50, but you will pay waaay too much for it. It is still half water.
Please don't be fooled by BS advertising with coolants. They will claim things like "lubricates" your pump or other nonsense. Oh, it is true that glycol has a lubricity value...but why? Why does an impeller need lube? Secondly, they will claim that they will lower your engine operating temperatures. Really? Isn't that the job of a thermostat and a fan? I guess it could change how long it takes to get the temperature up, but again, what is the point?
The only reason I see for water wetters is they often contain corrosion inhibitors. That is good if you have cast iron cylinder liner exposed to oxygen. Not likely. For aluminum? Money wasted. Not enough corrosion to mess with.
Understand that corrosion inhibitors work by laying down a barrier coat on the metal. If you do it once, you have the coat, which will last a very long time. They do not re-coat and re-coat. Not possible because they prevent more inhibitor molecules from doing anything, after the initial coating is laid down. Done. In a oil refinery, with much higher temperatures of the steels, we would treat the metals on startup and circulate corrosive/errosive products 24/7 for 3 years running.
In case you wonder about race engines? Water wetters are permitted, but glycol based anti-freeze is banned. (Except snow-mobiles) In freezing climates you should drain cooling systems anyway, when you put your scooter away for the winter.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 6, 2018 6:33:01 GMT -5
As said, most likely the rad cap is the high point and can make it easy to burp out air bubbles. You can see the bleed screw (or bolt, leaking as they call it) in the head here : www.g-forcepowersports.com/DRR-90cc-OEM-Cylinder-and-Top-End-s/427.htmOne thing to keep in mind is that coolant's other name is anti-freeze for a reason. If your scoot will be in freezing environments and you don't wish to give up on riding just because it's a little cold outside, it becomes necessary. |
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Post by 'O'Verse on Apr 6, 2018 7:44:57 GMT -5
Plus there's the added fact that the anti-freeze helps lube up stuff. Especially water pump internals. I think 190mech and Spaz covered this at the end of Spaz's build. Straight water is gonna rust any parts that aren't rust resistant. Grab some some 50/50 mix. Any color you want. Plus like 90gtvert said it'll survive during the winter.
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Post by Lucass2T on Apr 6, 2018 7:50:30 GMT -5
Plus there's the added fact that the anti-freeze helps lube up stuff. Especially water pump internals. I think 190mech and Spaz covered this at the end of Spaz's build. Straight water is gonna rust any parts that aren't rust resistant. Grab some some 50/50 mix. Any color you want. Plus like 90gtvert said it'll survive during the winter. Not to mention the minerals and chalk. When you use water, use the stuff you put in batteries. Add some drilling oil for lubrication for wathever needs lubrication. |
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Post by benji on Apr 6, 2018 9:10:11 GMT -5
God damn it! That's what I paid for those tiny 1oz tubes. $71?!?! Those import tariffs are ridiculous. Jb weld is DEFINITELY not worth that much. Even $15 is too much haha. |
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Post by tsimi on Apr 6, 2018 9:11:14 GMT -5
God damn it! That's what I paid for those tiny 1oz tubes. $71?!?! Those import tariffs are ridiculous. Jb weld is DEFINITELY not worth that much. Not $71, $15. For 15 you guys can buy the big tubes. They even don't sell the large tubes over here and amazon doesn't ship JB weld to Japan. |
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Post by tsimi on Apr 7, 2018 5:38:06 GMT -5
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Post by ThaiGyro on Apr 7, 2018 6:31:27 GMT -5
I guess we can have differences in opinion...but "lubricating parts" that even the designers did not think necessary? Seals...why? The other side of that same seal is in an air and heat environment.
Anti-freeze and coolant are not necessarily the same, but you need to understand chemistry. When I talk about water wetters...they are considered coolant additives, and as stated, usually have corrosion inhibitors. They are not anti-freeze, glycol based. Yamaha is HUGE here...no bikes come with anti-freeze, but all have corrosion inhibited water. I think it's a nitrate or nitrite based additive.
Hmmm...the math? A one gallon system at full strength? 1 to 2 percent nitrate. I dare you to measure that in crystals or liquid. Here is my example: Red Line makes an additive that comes in 355ml bottles and that amount treats 10 to 15 liters of water. That is a range of 2% to 3.5%. The cost per bottle? Not sure today, but $15 or higher?
My points were stated...aluminum does not need it in any engine. Not enough temperature to create a significant corrosion event.
Lubrication? Hahahahaha! Never found anyone who had a good theory. The shaft? The seals? The impeller? Oooh...maybe the thermostat...yes! That makes more sense! I can debate this all day.
There is only one argument for spending cash on "anti-freeze"...the air gets below freezing! Even then...do you need 50/50? I know the answer. It's just chemistry. Hate my response or hate yourself for wasting money. Then we can discuss drilling brake rotors...
The question I asked...why do you need a corrosion inhibitor OR a "coolant"? Even with cheaper alloys of alum? You have super low flow regime, except at the pump discharge...and temperatures that cannot cause a metallurgical problem.
Even NASA said it in the late 70's...if you have water with near zero minerals...(someone said "battery fluid"), than you need very little protection for aluminum.
I am simply stating that you ARE wasting money. Unless, of course you never change your coolant/water, which is more normal...
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Post by tsimi on Apr 8, 2018 5:37:57 GMT -5
Crank is in. Not sure if the crank bearings ( C3 ) were the reason, but I must say I struggled with this one. Or maybe I just got old and lost some of my power. The MHR Replica build with the C4 crank bearings went lot smoother and easier. Anyways, too bad you won't see the crank anymore once assembled really a shame. Such a beautiful piece. I did have a deja vu situation. Some might remember it from my MHR Rep build, the issues I had with the oil seal on the variator side. Same thing happened again. I messed up the oil seal. Didn't wanna go in straight and finally had to pull it out. Now I have to wait for new oil seals, yeah seal s, getting a spare just in case.       |
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Post by tsimi on Apr 10, 2018 10:06:46 GMT -5
Got the oil seals today and successfully installed it.
Now next step would be to install the cylinder and check squish.
Is there anything you guys want me to check on that cylinder before I install it and tight it down?
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Post by Lucass2T on Apr 10, 2018 10:20:58 GMT -5
Is there anything you guys want me to check on that cylinder before I install it and tight it down? Ring gap. Check @ 1:06 |
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Post by tsimi on Apr 10, 2018 11:53:34 GMT -5
Lucass2TI meant more like do you guys want to see port map or want to know what the exhaust and transfer duration is?
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