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Post by oldgeek on Apr 10, 2018 12:07:32 GMT -5
...........I did have a deja vu situation. Some might remember it from my MHR Rep build, the issues I had with the oil seal on the variator side. Same thing happened again. I messed up the oil seal. Didn't wanna go in straight and finally had to pull it out. Now I have to wait for new oil seals, yeah seal s, getting a spare just in case. I could not tell you how many seals for the variator side I have screwed up when installing them. I buy them several at a time. |
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Post by Lucass2T on Apr 10, 2018 13:33:57 GMT -5
Lucass2T I meant more like do you guys want to see port map or want to know what the exhaust and transfer duration is? Yeah a port map + durations chart would be cool. It can go in the tech section. |
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 11, 2018 5:20:15 GMT -5
Something else... How hot does the radiator liquid get? Found some hose here saying up to 60 degrees celcius. Is that enough? Although I’ve found that my scoots have run cooler I’d look for hose that’s rated to 180f or 80c. I think most of the LC builds here have been below 150f but they don’t do the commuting like you would be. Automotive heater hose would be rated properly. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 12, 2018 6:20:31 GMT -5
Although I’ve found that my scoots have run cooler I’d look for hose that’s rated to 180f or 80c. I think most of the LC builds here have been below 150f but they don’t do the commuting like you would be. Automotive heater hose would be rated properly. I've been thinking of ditching the idea of clear tubing on mine for that reason. Not even sure what the motoforce clear tubing is rated at, though it's listed for coolant. I like the idea of clear tubing. Looks kinda cool and you can see the coolant. Don't like that I'd likely find out if it was a problem on a long ride when I'm going red light to red light and stuck behind buses for hours on end 70 miles from home. I'm only used to autos and the TMAX, where the thermostat doesn't even open till 180-200F usually, so hoses rated to 150 are kinda troubling to me. I wouldn't mind a thermostat on mine either, to try to keep temp more stable and a little higher when it's cool out. Not sure how much it really matters, but from looking into it long ago for cars I know that tests have shown that coolant temps nearer 180F are better for cylinder wall wear. Some is attributed to it's affect on engine oil which is not too relevant for us two-strokers, but some of it is about operating at temps where temps were intended for clearances. You wouldn't want to have really cool coolant, just like you shouldn't start a cold engine and immediately do a mile wide open. How much any of that matters in the world of 2T scoots is unknown to me. These aren't going to be 200,000 mile engines regardless. There's more to it regarding engine efficiency and emissions and effect on mixture temps too. I haven't even really looked into it much though. I can't even recall where to get thermostats other than inline. Unfortunately thermostats aren't something that I've seen discussed much in any LC conversions. Sorry if this is a little OT, but with the conversations going on here I felt it best to mention here ATM rather than in more threads. |
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Post by Lucass2T on Apr 12, 2018 7:36:09 GMT -5
My former employer had built a Gilera Ice converted to a MX bike. 20hp bike and he told me he'd want the coolant temps to be around 60 celcius, dunno what that is in F. I've read/heard the around same numbers in/from multiple other sources.
And i've really seen nobody ever using the stock thermostat when doing a bbk build on a minarelli or piaggio engine. Dunno why, but when Im building one im definetly using a thermostat. Unless they open at 4t car/motorcycle operating temps...thats too hot.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 12, 2018 8:20:52 GMT -5
60C is 140F. I have no clue what any scoot thermostats operate at. I did a real quick search for Aerox thermostat temperature. I looked in a service manual from Yamaha and thought I found it, but was wrong. They tell you to suspend the thermostat in water and use a thermometer in the water and observe the temp. Cool, a spec for when it opens should follow. Nope. Tells you if it doesn't open to replace it. DOESN'T OPEN WHEN THOUGH?!? Seems pretty useless. I found different statements just searching for general 2T thermostat info, again fairly quickly. People reporting 140-180F temp ranges was common on a couple of dirbike threads. An MX racing article talked about racers struggling to keep temps below 200F (93C). THIS RACER says to keep temps 50-55C (122-131F). I found that some KTM 2T dirtbikes have 55C (131F) thermostats. Looks like they're quite happy trying to maintain 50-60C (122-140F) on THIS PAGE. I found mention of an RD350 thermostat being 71C (160F) and people changing to 50C (122F). I don't seem to see a lot of discussion as to why any particular temps. I don't know that most 2T owners even care about anything more than major changes in engine wear if that's a factor. Most of them are race-oriented or basically toys, not for street use, when you go outside of the scoot world or a small selection of old bikes. |
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Post by Lucass2T on Apr 12, 2018 9:06:37 GMT -5
Tbh... I dont have the temp gauge hooked up on the cr500. Would like to see what kinda temps that thing is running at in street use.
But im guessing it doesnt ever see beyond 120f because of the two giant coolers, relatively high speeds on tarmac and it being virtually impossible to put a decent load on the engine for longer than 5 seconds in street use.
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 12, 2018 10:47:03 GMT -5
I recall covering the temperature subject some time back. I think I recall it was mentioned 130-150f was best. My MHR77 and Athena both would run under 150, my cast bore was a bit hotter. Different head design I’m guessing. I had a hard time getting temp into the MHR. I like the look of the clear hose but it looks more like appliance hose to me. I’d plan for 180 or better, automotive grade hose.
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buzzscoot
Scoot Member
Posts: 52 
Location: Georgia
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Post by buzzscoot on Apr 12, 2018 19:34:43 GMT -5
My experience-I had to replace my thermostat that would not open on my Piaggio Lc motor. The replacement I bought is standard for Piaggio LC and opens at 70C. I tested mine and it actually opened at 65C. So this is 150-158F. Knowing this and being in the south and not riding much in the winter, I doubt that I needed the thermostat after all.
I can only think that Piaggio must want their stock scooters to operate at a coolant temperature inside the head where the thermostat sensor is at around 150F.
I have a temperature gauge which reads my coolant temperature in the radiator tubing that leaves the head prior to entering the radiator. Once warmed up, it normally reads 135 to a high of 155F. I suppose at this location the temp may be slightly lower than what is being read inside the head.
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Post by tsimi on Apr 13, 2018 5:20:07 GMT -5
Got some stuff delivered today. This was one of the items. A Thermo-thing for the cylinder head. I didn't know what size I should order but the Koso gauge manual said that PT1/8 probes should be used. I am not sure though that was the right size unless you guys tell me that the following showing in the image below is normal. Because that is as far as it goes in and not further. And I know it isn't touching the bottom yet since I measured the depth and it has enough space to go in all the way, but it doesn't.   |
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 13, 2018 5:29:21 GMT -5
That looks correct as long as it threaded in easily. The threads are tapered to get a good seal. You’ll still need to use a sealing compound when it’s installed to prevent leaks.
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Post by tsimi on Apr 13, 2018 5:32:23 GMT -5
That looks correct as long as it threaded in easily. The threads are tapered to get a good seal. You’ll still need to use a sealing compound when it’s installed to prevent leaks. It goes in easy and sits snug when in that position shown in the image above. So it doesn't have to go all the way in then? Please explain "compound" to seal. What can be used? |
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 13, 2018 6:10:09 GMT -5
I use plumbing compound to seal threads because I have it available but I’m sure you could use your favorite flavor of gasket maker on the threads to seal it up.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 13, 2018 13:01:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you can get over there, but there are specific thread sealants. If all else fails, teflon tape. Most don't use that in the automotive world anymore though.
You don't have to drive that sensor in flush. Just get it snug/tight. As Ryan said, pipe thread is tapered so it's gonna get tighter and tighter as it goes.
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Post by Lucass2T on Apr 13, 2018 14:14:53 GMT -5
1/8npt thread? Thats a conical thread thats used for oil pressure senders in automotive. Thise threads you see in sandwich plates and stuff.
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