2012 Vespa S50 its Back!!

[pinkscoot]

I had time to play again today. Last night when I got home from work the engine was well warmed up and I went at the A/F mixture again. I finally had it okay and when I went to check it was 6 turns out. Any thing less and it had problems. This morning I decided to up the pilot and main jets. As I mentioned before the Snorkle was pulled from the air box and it really opened it up. I pulled out my pilot jests and the next largest one was a 38, I figured why not. The main jet set I had ordered were of course the wrong size. I put the 38 in and closed it up. I turned the screw out 1 1/2 turns and got it started. I let it warm up and took a quick trip to warm it for tuning. When I got back I started to turn the screw in, each turn it got better until I hit bottom. Not my idea of a good tune.

I went for a ride around town, being sure to go on my favorite test hill. Its a long uphill with lots of twisties. I got home and tweaked the idle and called it done. Later I deciced it should go to work with me and it started right up. Before I left for work I found my new BBK and cam on the door step. I have the weekend off so I'll get that installed. I have a set of main jets coming that I'm hoping show up tomorrow.

One issue I'm having is when I first start it, it revs high, like 4000rpm high. When the enricher closes it settles down. It sounds like a leak at the enricher, anyone with other ideas. Tomorrow I'll spray it with carb cleaner to see it I'm right.

I'll try and get pictures of my install. Tonight I'll make popcorn and watch Robot at Vespa Motorsports do the exact install.

[pinkscoot]

Yesterday I got the BBK on the scooter. It's a 49mm bore so It's supposed to give me 80cc's. You need to pull the engine to do this. I read about a guy that has done several that did do one through the front access panel but he said it took twice as long and left him with lots of cuts. David came over to help and a second set of hands was useful. Pulling the engine is relatively easy. Once out I gave it a good cleaning. The PO had kept it parted in a mud pit and there was mud all over the place as well as the usual old grease. Here it is clean:


I had been concerned about valve clearance because it was hard to start and the idle was iffy. I checked it before I pulled the cam and the intake was way tight but the exhaust was perfect. I knew I was doing this and without having shims decided to wait for the new cam before I got concerned. Taking it apart was easy, I did make the mistake of loosening the cam gear after the tensioner was loose and not marking TDC on the flywheel. I got it back when I put it back together. Here is a shot of the head before I cleaned it. The valves were tight no leaks:



Here is the engine without the cylinder with the old piston:



The piston had some scoring on it:



I'm not sure about the milage because the speedo was broken. But normal wear items were original. This scoot probably had a hard life. I'm glad I put the new cylinder on it. The new 

Putting the circlips in was a bitch, they are the ones with no ears. It all went back together no problems. The piston moved fine by hand so no head crash, I had the right TDC. The engine went back in no problem. I left the up jetted 38 pilot in but don't have any main jets so I drilled the main out to 78ish. I have a set coming Monday so I can play then. It started right up but was revving high. We waited for the enricher to close and it was taking a while when David noticed the lights weren't on. I turned it off and checked the Stator plug. It was connected but nothing. It had been hard to connect so I pulled the shroud and looked at the other end and a pin was bent. I got the pins straight and made the connection, started it up and had lights. Put it back together and it fired right up. The enricher closed. I took it for a quick ride in the rain, sleet and snow to get it to warm up. I'm usually a wide open throttle guy on these 50's but I had to hold back because it had some power, and of course it was slick out. I just rode up and down the street, I would have gone farther but the sleet hurt when it hit. When I got back David got a picture of the sleet on my sweatshirt:

 

The A/F was still only happy all the way in. I started looking at the 35 jet that came with the selection I had and using a drill saw that it was a little larger than the 35 that was in the carb. Today I'll swap that out and see if it helps. If not I'll get some from Jetsrus. The suns fighting its way out so time to go for a longer ride. 

[pinkscoot]

Yesterday I put the 35 generic pilot in and ended up about a 1/2 turn from bottom, I need to get some real jets for this. I took it out for a ride and it ran well. It does have some nice torque and pulls away from lights almost like a stock 2 stroke. It needs some new shocks, I was bottoming out on some small pot holes. I had my GPS in a pocket on the scoot and the Speedo only seems off by a few MPH. That's a miracle on Piaggio scoots, they are usually 10-15% off. While going up a long straight hill I like to test on it help 40mph until the engine had a small soft seize so I backed off and took it easy on the way home. I'm glad my real jets come in today so I can start tuning it.

[pinkscoot]

My Technigas GPR exhaust finally came in. Thanks to Eric at Scootertuning. The first one I got was the wrong one and when he ordered the correct one he checked that it was right. He sent that on to me before getting the other back. So I had palnned to use my malossi A/F gauge to tune this but had to scrap the idea because there was no room for the sensor. There was barely room for the pipe. Of course the kit came missing one spacer and bolt. I went the Ace hardware and they had what I needed. The kit bolted right up and looks good. I pulled the restrictive DB Killer to improve the flow:

I'm happy with the look and the scoot has a nice note at idle. Tomorrow I start tuning things in the old fashioned way, except without the quick looks at the plug. At $17 a plug I also won't be doing new plugs each run.

[pinkscoot]

So today I tried putting a temp gauge for a water cooled scoot on. I used the sensor for the CDI and it seemed to work the gauge but must be sending some voltage to the sensor because the CDI made the engine rev, so off it came and I grabbed my infra red thermometer. I put the 85 MJ in and took it for a ride. It went farther but still did the soft seize thing. I'm not sure if its soft seizing or not. These have a temperature sensor that's plugged into the CDI, its probably doing something when it gets too hot. I stopped when it happened and the engine died. I checked the temp when I stopped and it was 175 F. That's not hot but I'm sure it had cooled some. I then tried a 90 MJ and it was just a bit rich. I checked the plug both times and it was clean, I might not have ridden it enough. I then drilled the stock 72 jet to 88 and drove it. It made the whole trip no problems but its still not right. I haven't touched the needle but I may try a washer under it tomorrow to see if that helps the mid range or not. I checked the drill bit I have for a 90 jet and it was big in the 90 jet so I'm probably dealing with some generic jets and I question their accuracy. I went ahead and ordered a small assortment of genuine Keihin jets from JetsRUs and I'll play with them.

I did get it to 47mph but I'm not sure if that was on a hill. It seemed to do 43mph nicely on level ground. As soon as I have the engine tuned I'll move on to the CVT, I'm running 5Gr rollers in a Multivar variator. I'm looking at a Delta clutch to complete the CVT.

[pinkscoot]

I started looking at the stock 35S pilot jet and realized that even though I saw light through it might not be open. I pulled the jewelers loop out and had a close look. It was clogged, there was light but something was in there. I took a strand of wire and ran it through and spun it to really clean it. looked back and the was a nice round hole. The smallest carb cleaning wand in my pack didn't fit but when I pulled the generic 35 out there was plenty of room. I don't know how many times I've said be sure its really clean. I put the carb together warmed it up and ran the A?F screw to 3 turns out and it idles very nicely. I tried putting a washer under the needle and no dice. The locking cap wouldn't lock. I took it out and it runs much better. It climbs to 9700rpm very quickly but doesn't have the speed. Next week I'll have the Delta clutch and will tune the CVT in. Maybe after that the up gears so I can see some speed.

[pinkscoot]

I got the Delta clutch and Keihin jets so I started on the engine. I put in the Keihin 90 jet and it was a bit rich so I went to their 88 jet that was just a little larger than my 88. It was better but still feels like its to rich. It runs well but I definitely need a temperature gauge to get it right. I found that Trail Tech has a 10mm ring and I ordered it. I the threads on the plug are 8mm but the base is 12mm So I'm hoping I can get it to hold the ring.

I put the Delta clutch in and kept it as it came, white springs, lowest setting and white contra spring. My Multivar has 5gr weights. It was an improvement right off the line. It definitely grabbed better but hit at about 4000 rpm. I had marked the variator and got almost full travel. In this picture you see a little marker at the lower left:


Its better than the old clutch. Next I went to maximum setting on the white springs. It was a little better and hit at 4500rpm. This will take a bit of time to tune, you have to pull the clutch apart to adjust the tension each time. I'm glad I got the impact socket for the clutch nut. No more banging an adjustable wrench on the floor. 

[pinkscoot]

I had time before work so I continued tuning. I tried the white springs with 4gr rollers and it was very high revving but slow. I hit 10500 rpm but the speed was down. I went back to 5gr and the green spring at full stiffness. Much better. It grabbed high and really pulled. My butt dyne says I'm close. I have all but 2mm of travel on the variator. I had to stop to get ready. Tomorrow I should have the Temp Gauge and be able to start doing some legitimate runs and track my info. I live downtown in a hilly city. All of the nice level roads are congested. I have one place thats long and straight and fairly level that I'll do some runs on next and document where I am.

One thing I noticed is I'm not all the way down in the variator:



And the belt isn't all the way out on the rear pulley:



My belt is a 727-18.5-30 Malossi. I'm wondering if a 738-18-30 belt will give me the full clutch and get down in the variator better. There is another Malossi belt thats a 724-17.5-30 that would get me in the variator but lower on the pulley. It might give me better top speed. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[190mech]

It does look like a longer belt is needed.You'll never get the CVT tuned right with a short belt,,

[pinkscoot]

I was able to find the OEM belt and put it back on. It's 17.5mm wide and fit perfectly on the variator. It left 6mm of back pulley showing. I decided to check the travel on the two pulleys and the variator has 40mm and the clutch 46mm so if I get the belt out to the edge of the clutch pulley I'll never see a good top speed. But with the belt where it is now I don't have the best take off I could get. I took it for as decent ride with the narrower belt and my take off was good and I got it to shift on a nice strait level section. The stock belt is about 15mm shorter than the Malossi belt I have but they both sit at the same place on the back pulley because the 17.5 width lets it drop down in the variator. I am looking to get a higher top speed from this scoot so I think I'll try a third option. There is a Malossi belt that is 17.5mm and 724mm long with the same angle. Though it's 3mm shorter than the one I have now it will sit down in the variator and be a little further out on the clutch pulley. Either way they both will also fit the ET2 when I get around to that build.

[pinkscoot]

I've done a lot on this the past week. I've been busy getting all my scoots on the road and neglected catching up. So the Malossi 724 17.5 belt came in and my theory was wrong. It is a little closer to the top of the clutch pulley but does sit down in the variator. I do get full travel on the variator and I am assuming the clutch. I got the trail tech CHT in, it don't fit on the plug so I put it under the temp sensor for the CDI. With the keihin 88 main it was topping about 180 degrees. I went to my drilled 88 and it was peaking close to 200 degrees. My 88 is a lot smoother no stumbles. I went to the Malossi green contra thats supposed to be the next step up from the white but the white that came with the Multivar is much longer and stiffer:


It was a different ride I'm not sure yet. I went to the lowest setting on the green clutch springs and it takes off well but tachs around 10,000, to of the power range. I went to 6.1 gr rollers and started some test runs.  I had the following:
0-30mph 8 seconds
0-40mph 14 seconds
My top speed was 45mph

I Its supposed to storm today so next week I'll do some more runs with the white spring and play with the clutch springs.

Here is a video of my favorite test run, its an uphill twist turny road that I like going both ways on:

These videos make me want to get a Go Pro so I can get some good video of my rides.

[pinkscoot]

I finally got around to installing the up gears in my Vespa S50. It went from around 1:14 to 1:10.25 and very little lose to acceleration. When I drained the transmission fluid it was pretty dirty, this was the scoot that had auto transmission in the gear box when I got it. I opened the transmission and got the gears out cleaned everything well to get the remnants of what had been there. Then I went looking for someone to press them for me and no one was interested so I ended up at HF. As I stood there and looked at the 6 ton bench and the 12 ton freestanding press I decided the 6 ton was fine. Of course it didn't have enough working room, that's what happens when you don't read the specs. It barely had the grunt to do the intermediate gear and was able to get the gear off the axle but not put it on. So the next day with the 20% coupon I was back to HF and got the 12 ton. It was much easier to assemble and had the grunt to do what I needed. My advice is unless you are planning on embossing leather stay away from the 6ton bench press.

I got all of the gears ready and put them in used the Loctite 510 that's recommended and torqued it down. I put the wheel on and it wouldn't turn. ulled it apart and checked each gear and the shims and found the 6 ton press hadn't seated the intermediate gear. The 12 ton press had no problem and it all went back together. I went to work and left putting the scoot back together until I got home.

After work I got back on it. I decided to stay with my CVT set up I had so I could see what I had. It was raining like a biotch with thunder and lightning while I work, it stopped just as I finished so of course I needed to go for a ride. The roads were still wet and the ball game was letting out so it was a short ride. This morning I went for a longer ride and tested it on some long hills. It still pulls well and rides nice. The RPM's were a bit lower so I was happier with that. I didn't have my phone set up so I didn't see a top speed. I have some more time this week to get back to tuning the CVT and make it run perfectly.

[joebob]

why can't i see any of the pics ?
this is what i get ....
This site can’t be reached
postimg.org’s server IP address could not be found.
DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

edit ... i can see pics on the april 15 post, but that's all.

[90GTVert]

Jun 2, 2018 19:31:19 GMT -5 joebob said:

why can't i see any of the pics ?
this is what i get ....
This site can’t be reached
postimg.org’s server IP address could not be found.
DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

edit ... i can see pics on the april 15 post, but that's all.

postimg had some issues right at the time that these pics were posted. postimg.org had to be changed to postimg.cc for stuff to work. I went back and edited a few for you so you've got something to look at.

[joebob]

thank you, sir !