jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 15, 2018 8:11:21 GMT -5
Hi - Bought some Stage6 14/42 gears and tried to put them in last night. Maybe naive as a newbie, but - what the hell... I need help putting it all together and figuring out the bearings. I bought a full bearing set but don't have a clue about how to install them. I watched a bunch of videos but couldn't match up what they were doing with my exact design on the '05 Zuma 2t. I saw a link here to the ZumasRUs tech tip and decided to use that as a guide. I drained the oil, removed all the CVT stuff - variator, clutch, and belt. Then I removed the cover with a bit of wiggling and it came off, just like in the last photo of that link above. I banged out that old clutch shaft and put the new one on. The new gear went on super-easily, and I figured I'd try and just get the cover back on. That's where my problems started and where my questions lie. How to I get that assembly above back onto the scoot? This is what it basically looks like in my scoot: The clutch shaft doesn't seem to want to go into that bearing on the far left in that photo above. I didn't really change any of the bearings as I don't have a press and it just seemed easier to use them as-is. I suppose the right thing to do is to put on those nice new bearings that I just bought. Like I said above, I don't have a clue about how to manage these bearings. I don't know how to get them out of the case, and I don't know how to get the various shafts back in place. The old shaft goes into the old bearing pretty easily. And - it goes into the new bearings well, too. The new shaft doesn't want to go on though, unless I 'force it'. Do I need to take the wheel off and do some of this from the other side? Please help or at least point me in the right direction Thx!! Jack
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 15, 2018 8:50:15 GMT -5
It looks like I need to follow the procedures in Brent's excellent videos here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxIW7Pj_NEI&t=197sDamn - this is going to be tough, but I suppose that goes for anything worthwhile... Can I try and do all this without removing the rear wheel, and leaving the one case half on the scoot, as in the last photo above?
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Post by 90GTVert on Dec 15, 2018 9:33:33 GMT -5
I would definitely do the bearings while you're that deep into the project. Hopefully then you'll be good to go for a long time.
It may be normal for the new primary drive shaft (clutch shaft) to be tighter in it's end support bearing. Maybe they were looking for less play? Usually a little rotation of shafts and you can get stuff aligned and back together, but if the shaft is tight in the bearing even on their own, it may take a tap to get the cover back on once you're sure everything is aligned. The rear wheel will need to be able to move to make things easier, but may not need to come off.
Do a final mock up even once you think it's all good to go before any sealant, using normal torque specs. That's because if anything is off with spacing, it could mean that the gears lock together. Happens with the clones to me (different setup) just with a change in gasket sometimes. Much better to find out if that's an issue before any sealant is used if you choose to use a sealant on the gasket.
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 15, 2018 10:02:14 GMT -5
ok - I guess I'll buy this blind hole kit from Amazon, work the bearings out, use my heat gun, freezer, and maybe oven to get this all to go back together. But I think I’ll leave the driveshaft and it’s bearing (far right in photo above) as-is. I'm not going to use sealant, just a new gasket, and I'll inspect it to make sure it's not leaking. Let's see how that plan works... Open to tips and advice. Otherwise, I'll mostly leverage the videos linked above Thx!
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Post by 90GTVert on Dec 15, 2018 11:00:19 GMT -5
If you don't want to use a blind hole puller, some people use stuff like bread or grease to get bearings out that can't be driven out. You can look both of those up on YouTube and get lots of results. Never tried those myself yet.
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 15, 2018 11:16:49 GMT -5
thx for the thought. As much as I'd like to do this today, I'll put the new bearings in the freezer to work on it tomorrow - with WD40 as you suggest. I ordered that set with my Amazon points and it'll come tomorrow. I'll clean out more of the CVT case with brake part cleaner. I can also work on the clutch shaft today and maybe put that in the freezer too.
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 16, 2018 16:51:26 GMT -5
Ugh - two more fails... First, the Slide Hammer set I bought isn't made to handle the smallest of the bearings. I was able to extract one of the larger bearings and I couldn't get the mid-size one out, even after heating the case with a heat gun. So, I'm 1 for 4 on extracting the bearings. The old bearings seem fine, so on with the prject. Fail #2 is that I can't seem to get the new gear shaft to fit into the old bearing, or the new one. I even put the shaft in the freezer overnight - still no luck. The old shaft fits in just fine, like butter. And - it doesn't seem to have too much play. Here's a video of that failure. I sent it in to the place I bought the gears from. Why is all of this stuff so damn hard? !!!! ?
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Post by ryan_ott on Dec 16, 2018 17:01:58 GMT -5
It looks like the gears are correct for your application so I’d think the shaft wasn’t turned down enough. If you have calipers you can compare the new shaft with the old and the bearing to see how far off it is. You might be able to clean it up with some fine sandpaper, or chuck it up in a drill for faster results. If it’s too far off send them back for replacements.
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 16, 2018 18:14:46 GMT -5
Thanks Ryan! I had already measured with a caliper and it seemed really close - should have said that earlier.
But I hadn't thought of sandpaper. I had a new 220 grit foam block in the basement and that pretty much did it - with your other advice of the drill - aweseome! I also used some coarser stuff for just a bit, and now it goes on and off with a bit of effort. Maybe a bit more effort than I'd prefer, but I'll try to get it all back together like this. And - I'll put it back in the freezer as that should help too.
I really appreciate your advice, quick reply, and all the great people on this forum!
Jack
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 17, 2018 12:53:42 GMT -5
Well - having more issues. Not worth bothering you guys about, though. But - I would like some help with a recommendation on a press for doing jobs like these gears and anything else I might want to do with a 2t. If I can get a decent one, and somehow talk myself into buying it, then I can move ahead on my own. Otherwise, I might just find a shop and take the parts in for them to do the work Thx!! Jack
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Post by ryan_ott on Dec 17, 2018 16:50:09 GMT -5
I have done the gears on my Zuma with just a 3 jaw puller. Get a decent brand not the harbor freight junk.
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Post by repherence2 on Dec 17, 2018 22:23:36 GMT -5
jack, did you mic (measure with the calipers) the Outer Diameter of the new gear shaft and compare it to the Inner Diameter of the Bearing? if so what was the diametrical clearance? it could very well be that the shaft is bigger than the I.D. of the bearing. you should mic the used shaft as well. there's probably like .003"-.005" between the old shaft and the new bearing for it to go on and off as easily as it does in the video.
at work, I have used a large bench vise as a "press" to press out eccentric bushings made of steel that were corroded together, but not everyone has a $700 Wilton to use. as for my gear kit, I was a Newb and did it all ghetto with a 3 pound Brass sledge hammer and some ratchet sockets. I don't recommend it, but it is possible. never ever use a steel hammer to install or remove a steel part, Brass hammer only.
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Dec 17, 2018 22:43:44 GMT -5
Reph - Thx for checking in! I'm all set with the shaft. I did measure and it's pretty close. After some work with the sandpaper, it goes in pretty well.
The current issue is with the Stage6 gears in that photo at the very top of the thread. I was under the impression that they'd go right in and work fine, as is, from the new packaging. However, that new gear combo is set up for another scooter, and I will need to separate them, as well as the stock combo, and then I'll need to put the larger new one onto the stock small gear and mini-shaft. The stock measurement is about 4.75mm and the Stage6 is 5.5mm. And that's why I now need a press. Or a 3 jaw puller. I'm going to call my friendly local bicycle shop tomorrow and see if they have a press in their shop that I can use.
Jack
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Post by repherence2 on Dec 17, 2018 23:10:33 GMT -5
Reph - Thx for checking in! I'm all set with the shaft. I did measure and it's pretty close. After some work with the sandpaper, it goes in pretty well. The current issue is with the Stage6 gears in that photo at the very top of the thread. I was under the impression that they'd go right in and work fine, as is, from the new packaging. However, that new gear combo is set up for another scooter, and I will need to separate them, as well as the stock combo, and then I'll need to put the larger new one onto the stock small gear and mini-shaft. The stock measurement is about 4.75mm and the Stage6 is 5.5mm. And that's why I now need a press. Or a 3 jaw puller. I'm going to call my friendly local bicycle shop tomorrow and see if they have a press in their shop that I can use. Jack I see what you mean. gotta do some switching around of the gear combo.
glad to see you are on your way. don't give up on the scooter. scoots are hard when you are new to it. but this forum got lots of info. I've been through the struggles too along the way. in the long run, Hindsight, the Struggles made the Achievement of the goal so much more gratifying, especially if you did all the work on your own and learned a lot from it. don't fear the struggles, they turn you in to a good tuner.
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Post by benji on Dec 18, 2018 8:08:01 GMT -5
I've heard the harbor freight press works well.
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