engine build: SYM dd50.

[190mech]

The only way without cutting would be to put an endoscope/borescope down the outlet pipe and see if it has a baffle cone (full wave pipe) and where it ends into the stinger..I think it could be approximated to close enough for a calculation..
Samodel cut a similar pipe here;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeNHEFGeBh4

[repherence2]

Aug 16, 2021 5:20:56 GMT -5 190mech said:

The only way without cutting would be to put an endoscope/borescope down the outlet pipe and see if it has a baffle cone (full wave pipe) and where it ends into the stinger..I think it could be approximated to close enough for a calculation..
Samodel cut a similar pipe here;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeNHEFGeBh4

here's a shot at the whiz bang pipe.

exhaust flange has an inner ring that makes the port 32mm in diameter.  looks like the flange is originally cut for 36mm opening.  i am going to assume that wall thickness of this pipe is 1.5mm to 2mm.

sorry for the shitty pics, all i got is laptop webcam. 

--the numbers in circles from 1 thru 21 are Weld numbers.

--the numbers below the pipe is the outer diameter of the pipe at the weld location.

--the numbers on the center line axis of the pipe is the length of the section.

from my inspection via the exhaust outlet and probing, the details of second cone and the contents within the end can is interesting.

the can, from where the mouth of the cone is tacked welded, is lined with perforated metal that is sandwiching a layer of steel wool between the can and perforated metal.  from what i probed, i am pretty sure there is stinger pipe inside that does a u-turn.  i am pretty sure that stinger pipe is 20-21 mm inner diameter pipe.  the exhaust out let is 20-21 mm inner diameter, so i am assuming the stinger is most likely the same material. 

let me know if you need number clarifications at weld areas.

fully drawn out on paper at 1:1 scale, this looks like a Fat Stroker pipe rather than a "90cc".

[190mech]

Nice job!I will run those and let you know the results soon...

[hippo008]

Aug 16, 2021 17:46:03 GMT -5 repherence2 said:

Aug 16, 2021 5:20:56 GMT -5 190mech said:

The only way without cutting would be to put an endoscope/borescope down the outlet pipe and see if it has a baffle cone (full wave pipe) and where it ends into the stinger..I think it could be approximated to close enough for a calculation..
Samodel cut a similar pipe here;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeNHEFGeBh4

here's a shot at the whiz bang pipe.

exhaust flange has an inner ring that makes the port 32mm in diameter.  looks like the flange is originally cut for 36mm opening.  i am going to assume that wall thickness of this pipe is 1.5mm to 2mm.

sorry for the shitty pics, all i got is laptop webcam. 

--the numbers in circles from 1 thru 21 are Weld numbers.

--the numbers below the pipe is the outer diameter of the pipe at the weld location.

--the numbers on the center line axis of the pipe is the length of the section.

from my inspection via the exhaust outlet and probing, the details of second cone and the contents within the end can is interesting.

the can, from where the mouth of the cone is tacked welded, is lined with perforated metal that is sandwiching a layer of steel wool between the can and perforated metal.  from what i probed, i am pretty sure there is stinger pipe inside that does a u-turn.  i am pretty sure that stinger pipe is 20-21 mm inner diameter pipe.  the exhaust out let is 20-21 mm inner diameter, so i am assuming the stinger is most likely the same material. 

let me know if you need number clarifications at weld areas.

fully drawn out on paper at 1:1 scale, this looks like a Fat Stroker pipe rather than a "90cc".

I wonder if you could cut off the last section of pipe and attach a stinger to this thing? It would probably quiet way down and look pretty sweet

[repherence2]

Gotta try run the pipe first. 190mech ran the numbers for the pipe. From his analysis, his report did not look favorable.

So, before we delve into ideas of modifying this style of pipe, we gotta do some testing on it to figure out the "alchemy" that is involved with this style of pipe.

I have been doing some research into pipes like these that come out of the Philippines. Been doing some reading on JAD Power Pipes, gdash, and Gmoto. I have also been looking for info on "AP style" pipes. ...too bad i don't understand Filipino (even though i am half Filipino, but im 4th generation decendant from sugar plantation "slaves"). Apparently there is some info/knowledge on the Philippines forums.

[repherence2]

So far, from what i have bought, the Yasuni C16 is the best option as far as performance and economics. Out of the 3 pipes that i bought (v8 is excluded), the C16 was the cheapest and the "scorpion" was the most expensive.

The quality of the c16 is top notch. Yes, you gotta put in work for it to bolt up, but as far as quality and money, the c16 sets the bar. For $260, and the capability to rev over 12k, the Yasuni has my vote.
You get "known" performance and there are dyno graphs of the C16.

With the Philippines, it seems like Alchemy. On the Philippines motorcycle forum, on the topic of the "power pipes", one Filipino chimed in and said that Taiwan pipes are better. This makes me wonder how the TWH pipe numbers look, is it a legit pipe or just an Alibaba large production pipe?

But in all my searches, it appears that these "power pipes" have a narrow power band and you have to dial it in with the proper weights. I have seen recommendations to get rollers that go in increments of 0.25 gram increments to fine tune to the pipe. ...Alchemy... the only common complaint is the mount breaking on the Scorpions or some welds cracking. But everyone i have talked to with a Scorpion has liked the pipe's performance.

Time will tell. If not, i will sell that pipe locally. People here sell used Scorpions for $350-300! It's silly. That's how it is here in the Honda realm... Corsa + Scorpion = 100mph! Lol

[190mech]

There is a lot of Hype in the pipe building business..The online calculators and a bit of math will weed out the BS if dimensions can be had..The Yasuni pipes are textbook dimensioned and are the most copied pipes on the planet (me included..). A power pipe to me would be a C21 or C30 depending on the cylinder being used.Dont think the Honda engines have the really bad arse cylinder selection like the Piaggio and Mina engines,but grafting them would be an option..Just throwing out here...

Pitobread did some cool splices;
49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/24358/honda-hybrid-engine-stage6-modular?page=1

[hippo008]

I am very curious to know if your C16 exhaust clears well on your bike. Im tempted to order a C16 to replace my now broken Arrow, i just dont want to cut my panels for it.

Any chance you can mount that sym engine up on a dio and check the clearances for the pipe?

[repherence2]

Aug 29, 2021 23:08:10 GMT -5 hippo008 said:

I am very curious to know if your C16 exhaust clears well on your bike. Im tempted to order a C16 to replace my now broken Arrow, i just dont want to cut my panels for it.

Any chance you can mount that sym engine up on a dio and check the clearances for the pipe?

Sorry hippo, i cant help you with that. I don't have an Elite or a SYM dd50 to mount it on. The intent with this engine was to install it on a chinese 4 stroke scooter.

However, details: i bought longer bolts and some spacers to mount the pipe to the engine. Currently the bracket is spaced out from the engine 1-1/2". Initially i did a fit up using 1" spacers but i felt that the pipe was sitting too low when spaced to 1". When i say too low, my concern was the pipe hitting the ground when leaning over to take a turn.

From what i could find in regards to the SSS bracket that came with their c16, the bracket was bent and it appears that it kicks the pipe out and away from the mounting points about 1" to 1-1/2".

[hippo008]

Aug 30, 2021 14:50:43 GMT -5 repherence2 said:

Aug 29, 2021 23:08:10 GMT -5 hippo008 said:

I am very curious to know if your C16 exhaust clears well on your bike. Im tempted to order a C16 to replace my now broken Arrow, i just dont want to cut my panels for it.

Any chance you can mount that sym engine up on a dio and check the clearances for the pipe?

Sorry hippo, i cant help you with that. I don't have an Elite or a SYM dd50 to mount it on. The intent with this engine was to install it on a chinese 4 stroke scooter.

However, details: i bought longer bolts and some spacers to mount the pipe to the engine. Currently the bracket is spaced out from the engine 1-1/2". Initially i did a fit up using 1" spacers but i felt that the pipe was sitting too low when spaced to 1". When i say too low, my concern was the pipe hitting the ground when leaning over to take a turn.

From what i could find in regards to the SSS bracket that came with their c16, the bracket was bent and it appears that it kicks the pipe out and away from the mounting points about 1" to 1-1/2".

Bummer. Ill end up buying the C16 vertical and sending it out for modifications either way.

[repherence2]

Sept 1, 2021 22:13:15 GMT -5 hippo008 said:

Bummer. Ill end up buying the C16 vertical and sending it out for modifications either way.

You have to target a new hole on the bracket to mount it to to the engine. I also had to slot the hole on the bracket as well. Dremel with tungsten burr ginder to slot the hole and a drill to drill a new bolt hole for one of the mounting bolts.

The pipe needs to be fit up to the engine and spaced out to target the new hole. You could probably get away with not spacing it out, but im pretty sure your fan shroud will melt at some point.

[repherence2]

Sept 1, 2021 22:13:15 GMT -5 hippo008 said:

Aug 30, 2021 14:50:43 GMT -5 repherence2 said:

Sorry hippo, i cant help you with that. I don't have an Elite or a SYM dd50 to mount it on. The intent with this engine was to install it on a chinese 4 stroke scooter.

However, details: i bought longer bolts and some spacers to mount the pipe to the engine. Currently the bracket is spaced out from the engine 1-1/2". Initially i did a fit up using 1" spacers but i felt that the pipe was sitting too low when spaced to 1". When i say too low, my concern was the pipe hitting the ground when leaning over to take a turn.

From what i could find in regards to the SSS bracket that came with their c16, the bracket was bent and it appears that it kicks the pipe out and away from the mounting points about 1" to 1-1/2".

Bummer. Ill end up buying the C16 vertical and sending it out for modifications either way.

never knew 190mech was gonna do the "mods" =)

[hippo008]

You could say "ive got a guy for that"

[repherence2]

i came across a used "GDASH" pipe on craigslist. picked it up. the intent was to hack it up and install it on my chinarelli GTX but this pipe looks better than the the JAD pipe's transitions. the inlet port is smaller as well so i suspect this is a 72cc pipe.

pipe as posted on CL.



i wire wheeled it with a 4-1/2" grinder with knotted stainless wire cup.






i think im going to measure it up and have the Guru run the #'s on the pipe.

[winner3ty]

Looks like a pretty sharp taiwan pipe to me, by far my arrow was one of the best things ive ever gotten for my zx