Lance Cabo 50CC no spark conundrum

[cabo50cp]

Greetings,

I’ll start by saying I have done the basic trouble shooting and electrical tests located on this site. I have a Lance Cabo 50CC (DC cdi ) with a 8 pole stator with only 2 wires (yellow and white ) coming from stator and blue/white pick up coil.

My bike was running perfect and then it got stolen and hit wires and the fools cut wires in random places. I spent some tome correctly repairing wires. One night I ran through a gigantic problem and have been chasing spark ever since. My CDI and stator seemed fried so good replaced them. I’m getting good readings on stator and definitely getting power to CDI. Kill switch works as it should.

I have some randomly confusing things happening such as : the white wire from my stator can act as a ground when testing with a test lite. The wire from my CDI to ignition coil will do the same. If I connect a test light to positive battery and the ignition coil wire, it’ll act as ground and light will go on.



Blinkers, horn and brake all have power as it should. I just can’t get the damn thing to spark for the life of me. Have tried multiple CDI and ignition coils - all test good but none produced spark.

Do I have a bad ground somewhere for these random wires to be acting as ground ! ?

[pinkscoot]

Some scoots require factory CDI's to get spark. I doubt Keeway does but someone else can chime in. I was having a no spark situation and Brent suggested checking the kill switch circuit. The switch may be on and work but somewhere down the line the circuit is bad. start there. Another quick check is the engine ground wire. Check to be sure the engine is grounded. Just shooting in the dark.

[tortoise2]

Unknown if the Lance Cabo wiring harness has an alarm connector with a jumper, but MAY be a potential continuity gremlin to rule out?

[GrumpyUnk]

Two brain farts: Is the kickstand down or extended? Some have a no-spark with the kickstand down. AND, when testing coils and such, you have to remember the coil is a full-conductor from end to end. Touch one terminal or the other, with 12V present, and it should read just about the same on both ends.
Provide a ground to the non-powered end, and you build a magnetic field. Remove the magnetic field, by removing power or ground, and the field cuts conductors in the secondary as it collapses. Conductors in a field, moving relative to the field(they move or the field moves) causes current flow... spark to the plug.
So testing switches and coils should be done 'disconnected' unless you KNOW your are looking for 12V or ground, more or less. (the yellow and white wires are the 'out end' of the windings in the stator, with the other end touching each other, and I think, ground .. so they will measure 'funny' unless you know what you are measuring)
Have you tested, connector not connected, for voltage at the 'power' pin of the CDI connector? You can thest the coil by applying 12v to one terminal, and ground to the other. (9-volt transistor battery may work, too) When you disconnect, be ready for a spark as it should produce spark when power is removed. That is what the CDI does, supply power and then remove it... sparkage ensues.
tom

[cabo50cp]

Thanks I had bike running without stock CDi since this was actually the second time my bike got stolen and first tome I got it back without CDI. I also checked to make sure engine is grounded. As far as I can tell no alarm jumper anywhereX

Thanks for the suggestions I’m about to just junk this thing even though it has less then 200 miles

[GrumpyUnk]

Some models have a jumper under the front 'cover' that is designed for installation of an alarm without doing a lot of wiring. The jumper provides a way for the alarm to kill the ignition, and some connect such that they can also do 'remote starting'.
If the jumper is removed, you won't be able to stop the engine using the ignition key. If the wires there were fiddled with, and perhaps had their insulation damaged due to ignorant thieves trying to 'hot wire', you could be seeing intermittent ignition failure.
Did you get a normal, OEM, black plastic CDI? Does the Cabo have an AC or DC CDI? If it works with the battery removed, it is AC. If it doesn't work without the battery present and connected, it is DC.
If it doesn't work at all, do some 'temp' wiring. Get a new CDI, a new coil, and wire them to the pickup and power(the two connectors), apply power if DC, and spin the crankshaft. Have a plug in the coil socket. Get spark, and you can remove one or the other, and replace, and should have spark. If it works, you do a swap, and still no spark, you have a wiring problem that is killing the ignition.
tom


Where are you located?  If you want to junk your machine, I am sure there is someone local who would take it off your hands.
tom

[cabo50cp]

Thank you all / long story short the stator my mechanic sold me wasn’t working on my bike. It’s 8 coil Made for a DC CDI so yesterday the stator I ordered online came in and once installed I’m getting good, consistent spark.

Now that’s the good news. Bad news is still no start. I’ll be posting shortly after I test for gas and compression.

If my electric auto choke went bad would that prevent engine from starting ? I cleaned out my carb last night and their was gas in the bowl and gas coming from petcock so I think I’m getting fuel. Went out to store to get some starting fluid so I’ll know for sure shortly. When holding my hand over intake I am getting suction, so I don’t believe air is the problem but again I’ll run real tests to better narrow down the problem. I’m in Albuquerque, New Mexico and if anyone is interested in bike let me know because I’ve been chasing a starting, running bike for almost 3 months since it was stolen the first time. I’ve paid two mechanics to fix it and as my posting would prove, it still isn’t fixed. I think the fact that it was a DC system threw them off for whatever reason.

[GrumpyUnk]

A mechanic who charges for a 'repair' that does NOT fix the problem, is not a mechanic. They are a thief. You pay them for their KNOWLEDGE. If they are learning on your dime, they should work at a significantly reduced rate. They have no business charging professional rates as they are not professionals, and give real professionals a bad name.
You should get a refund for ALL work(even a diagnostic fee!) if their 'Dx' (diagnosis) is incorrect. They fixed nothing and did not diagnose correctly. It is NOT like the practice of medicine, where everyone reacts differently, and we are all built slightly differently.
Many are just 'parts changers', who respond the the diagnostic code. Bike mechanics should stand behind their work. If they don't, they should be exposed for the fraud they are foisting on their customers.
If you used a credit card to pay, you might be able to get a refund if you ask. FWIW.
A good professional earns his/her pay. They do not have to steal by performing unnecessary 'repairs'.
Now, what did the starting fluid do? Twist the grip, open the throttle, and give a 1-second burst. Close throttle and crank. If the 'mechanicals' are good, the engine will run for a few seconds. If you lack spark or compression it won't fire.
A failed 'byvalve' or auto choke will not provide the extra fuel & air to give a good fast cold idle. It will be hard to start when cold. You can test that the valve is open when cold using a tapered rubber plug adapter and a length of tubing. Poke the plug into the opening at about the 2 o'clock near the rim of the air inlet of the carb. There are several ports near the edge of the air intake. The largish one that goes through to the byvalve should be OPEN when cold. If you can't blow in, then check the byvalve, or replace with known good. If should CLOSE after the byvalve has warmed up. There's a video about how they work on site. If it is not open when cold, or is open when hot, it's not working. Per a shop manual.
tom

[cabo50cp]

A little starting fluid has gone a long way. A spray + spark shook this SYM scooter into super drive! In all seriousness, I have inconsistent gas at start up. I’ll start diagnosing soon !

[cabo50cp]

Ok - an update. The confusion continues.

After finding a leak in intake manifold, I repaired/installed new gasket and o ring and bike starter working properly - kind of. The bike started, but was dependent on me turning the high beams on or off or sometimes turning on a blinker. I also wasn’t able to go more then about 18MPH. After getting home it was clear the carb was gunked up. It was a carb with many restrictions for adhustments and because I had taken it apart and reassembled at a time early in my scooter career, of which I had no business doing, I decided to get a new one. Hooked it up and still wouldn’t start again. Realized the auto choke/enricher had the wires reversed from the way they were on the male clip of my moped, I clipped the wires, connected them and soldered them and then used heat shrinking seals to finish the job. With the enricher now getting power; the bike started right away. Sometimes it requires me to flick the brights on and off sometimes it didn’t.

In the stand, the bike was putting out nice power to the back wheel and was accelerating as one would want it too. As soon as my fat ass entered the picture, acceleration was deterred. It was clear the bike was running lean, as evidenced by the hot motor and crankcase as well as my spark plug which was now caked in white and finished off with the bike only starting/running if the air filter were entirely removed.

This morning, the bike went back to not starting at all and the starter is simply clicking, and prior to the the cranking/start process was as if it was occurring in slow motion. If I try to short my selenoid, it’ll spark with small minor league sparks but doesn’t even come close tonight getting the engine to crank.

Used multimeter on battery and am getting 12.7 or so with bike on and 12.9 when cranking. I am getting consistent spark and am getting gas as I can see it in the air filter and feel it on my finger when choking the carb. Compression is good when removing spark plug via the finger test coupled with increasing difficulty to crank kick start with hand.

CDi is good, tested on known running bike (DC). Stator is new and operating optimally. Ignition coil and spark also good. Spraying starter fluid in carb does not create the conditions for starting. When bike was running, sparyaing fluid around intake manifold didn’t result in increased acceleration. Right now it isn’t doing anything good and I can’t replicate the conditions to even get it to start, let alone run. The single click prevents that from happening. I tried disconnecting headlights and it made no difference. If it matters I have dual headlight system with LED as the bottom light (factory )

I may loose my mind with all this wackiness so any help is super appreciated. As a reminder, I installed, one at a time, a new CDI, new stator, new ignition coil, new spark plug and redid t he crappy grounds done at painted frame. I also fixed any sliced wires as a thank you from my local scooter thief’s with correctly soldiering them. Reinstalled ignition as they hot wired and got brand new battery.


Thanks in advance for even thinking about This

(Also I know my kill switch isn’t defective, I am starting on center stand, my bike isn’t equipped with plug and play alarm opportunity, the brakes work (





. Isn

[GrumpyUnk]

Battery voltage climbing(??) when loaded with starter draw indicates to my mind a poor connection. It is disconnecting the starter draw when you are trying to start, so the voltage climbs. Could be a bad ground or poor relay connections or a worn relay(points inside).
Your 'headlight' trick may be feeding the relay power or ground to enable it to pull the core in and make the connection. A load(light) can become a conductor to other things when the other thing can't find a better path to ground(power). That would explain the headlight on/high beam/blinker/toadstools in the toolbox/whatever that makes it work sometimes. Get a good ground for the engine to chassis, for the chassis to battery '-' terminal and for the stuff up in the instrument cluster. It is necessary to have predictable things happen...
tom

[bi6foot666]

Lance cabos specifically need to have the seat plugged in to get spark. Also has a killswitch on sidestand.

[cabo50cp]

Thank you. I am aware of the seat and kick stand kill switch. Another thing I noticed today was that with my ignition on, the power to the CDI (routes from battery through starter relay On DC CDI) is getting a zero reading when the ignition is turned on. When it’s off, the necessary 13 volts are going through. This is with all kill switches off.

Only way for me to test/start bike now is to unplug ignition maps/female couplings and jump the power wire.

Ignition has been working as it should up until today.

I went back and retested CDI and it was burnt out, getting a continuity reading between pins where it doesn’t belong. The CDI is brand new and was working properly and I tested it prior to install so it was fine m. Luickoly I have back up cdis

[cabo50cp]

I’m now back to a no start/no spark situation. I know I’m getting what I need from the stator, pick up coil / pulse thanks to multimeter testing. What I’m not getting is the CDI sending that power. However, I have 3 brand new CDI and they pass the multimeter test. They are all DC so I can’t make any sense of this. I know my CDI is getting enough DV C power and I know the pick up coil is telling it to sparks - but it’s not ? Is it really possible 3 brand new cdis all don’t work ? (They worked before )

Can you thinks of anything else

[GrumpyUnk]

If you want to test the CDI, and make sure it is good, I would think you would want to disconnect the kill wire, but keep the ground wire connected. If you don't have the ground, it cannot work, but it should work w/o the kill wire being connected. I guess for a DC CDI, the kill is the lack of 12V. So, I would supply power and ground w/o use of the ignition switch, remove the spark plug and insert into the plug boot, ground the outer, and crank it over.(looking for spark). No spark? Check the coil. Apply 12V to one side, and ground the other. Connected to the plug as mentioned, when power is removed you should get spark at the plug. No spark? Coil no worky. Basic checks before digging deeper into wires and switches.
Once you know the CDI works and fires the coil, then check the safeties, grounds, power sources, etc if it fails to spark when you have just proven the components good.
tom