I should have learned HVAC repair!!!

[90GTVert]

We got a $400+ electric bill for last month and this month's bill was estimated to be over $600. Most of the usage comes from heating according to the bill.

I've noticed that the heat runs 24/7, and the weather has not been all that cold. Average temp was high 40s. Thermostat is set to 67. It was blowing out cool air a lot, but the thermostat is set to heat rather than cool or auto. Definitely something wrong, so we called Service Today.

They sent a tech out the next day, not as an emergency call. The guy found a disconnected wire that he said was causing it to keep the coils on all of the time. Fixed that and now the heat isn't running that much. Great.

Here's the problem. They billed a $49 service fee to come out. OK. Then the guy said he was here 1hr20mn, but billed us for 1hr30mn. He was in the van for at least 20 minutes, but he was here. They billed $334.05/hr, and totaled that to $530 in labor for 1.5hrs. Add the service charge and they billed $579 altogether. No parts.

First, am I crazy or is that an insane hourly rate? It's even noted as standard, so that doesn't appear to be emergency rate. Second, 1.5 x 334.05 is $501.08 not $530. They've got an email about this, so we'll see how they respond.

I've looked it up online and it sounds like most emergency hourly rates aren't even on the level of what we paid.

[190mech]

WOW!!You sure that company doesnt do brain surgery also??

[aeroxbud]

That does seem extortionate. Just glad they didn't need parts.

[FrankenMech]

BOHICA

[oldgeek]

Without knowing more about the entire situation it is difficult for me to say for sure but that seems a bit high and fishy. For instance, today I changed a 1/3 hp indoor blower motor for a $450 flat fee, including the motor and capacitor. This one should have been easy because it was in a hall closet but the blower wheel was stuck on the shaft so I had to fiddle with it an extra 30 minuets to get it free. We would charge the same flat fee if the motor was in the attic, or under the house. Sometimes the job is across towns or around the corner, same flat fee. The point I am trying to make is, it all evens out.
My brother and I do all of the work, instead of having employees that we need to keep busy doing things like leaving the job to go get parts. We have well stocked service vans and can usually fix things in one trip. This keeps overhead down and our customers happier. I worked alone today, but my brother and I usually do most jobs together. It took me around an hour and 45 min to do the job today. If my brother was with me it would have taken 45 min? Same flat rate either way.
There are other HVAC companies here that would have charged double for the same job I did. There are also HVAC companies here that would have told the customer that it was not worth fixing and the entire system needs replacement just because this was a fairly old system. There are also "companies" that would have done it cheaper than we do, they are the ones that do not have insurance, state licenses, county licenses, city licenses.......Sorry for the rant.

Getting back to your problem Brent, I dont know what kind of system you have there. It sounds like possibly a heat pump with supplementary electric heat strips? If that is true I cannot see how a disconnected wire could cause the electric heaters to stay on, a disconnected wire would usually cause the electric heaters to not come on at all. There is a brand of systems that is notorious for having the heaters stuck on due to a faulty blower control board, I have seen it happen many times, sometimes even in the cool mode causing a very high $800+ electric bill on occasion. I would love to know exactly what your service tech found.

[oldgeek]

If it is indeed a heat pump and depending on the brand, a disconnected reversing valve wire (usually Orange) could cause it to be in cooling mode even though the thermostat is set to heat mode. The supplemental electric heaters would also come on.

I would be charging around $175 - $225 to find and repair that problem.

[90GTVert]

oldgeek It's a Trane heat pump system with an air handler in the attic that has supplementary electric heating element. Off the top of my head, I'd say it was installed roughly 10 years ago by this same company. Around 5 years ago the same thing was happening. It took multiple visits, where techs said they had it fixed but didn't. Eventually a tech replaced a relay and that fixed it, after they had replaced multiple much more expensive parts. Luckily, it was under warranty at that point. I think we paid labor, but the charges were not like this.

The tech from the other day said there are 2 relays up there now and we only need one. I don't know what the relays are supposed to do in the system. Another odd thing is that last time we had a routine service, we were told that there was a filter in the air handler in the attic that was changed as well as the inlet filter and we were billed for that. This tech said he looked, but our unit has no filter up there; just the one in the inlet or whatever that I change regularly.

Anyway, the tech told us what I said, that he found a disconnected wire keeping the coils running all of the time. Here's exactly what he wrote on the bill spelling and punctuation included, "test system out and found a bad wire to one of the safty swiches and had to rewire them now eveything is working like it should be J1,A1". Amazing that he spent 20 minutes or more in his van to write that out, so that bill cost us roughly $167 by the hourly rate charged which included his time sitting in the van. He was also on the phone in the middle of the job twice helping another tech with whatever they were doing, which amounted to about 15 minutes that we paid for.

I don't know exactly how he re-wired. He wasn't coming through the house carrying wire around, and his description to us of disconnected sounded more like he just had to hook something back up.

Regarding the $49 fee to show up, the tech said he was right in Preston a mile away before he came here so I'd say $49 per mile is pretty good.

Service Today is the big company in our area. They're the place that everyone knows because of TV, radio, and other ads and they've got a goofy looking mascot and all. When they installed our system and serviced it last, it was out of a different location, farther away. Now they have a location in the next town where this tech was from. If they always charge like this, I can see how they can afford to spread out.

[90GTVert]

UPDATE : They called this morning. $334.05 is the regular rate, not an emergency rate. They said they have different rates based on the work being done, but this is the standard rate and not a mistake. They offered to take off $99, so basically the $29 billing error + $70 off. We said that's still a really high rate, and they agreed to take the bill to $450. Even at that price, it feels like we got screwed.

I guess the good news is that we know they think $334.05/hr is a fair rate so we will look around and ask ahead of time when we need any other HVAC service.

[FrankenMech]

Fly oldgeek up to check out the system. It would be cheaper and more fun. A system installation manual can be found online with wiring diagrams.

Gather your repair bills and video-document the lies and overcharges. Then send the recording to the local news station and post it on here and Youtube.

A service call fee is fairly standard for any service company even if the tech lives next door.

BTW, I could not even get the company that installed my HVAC system to answer the phone when I called them for a warranty problem.

[jackrides]

Unfortunately, you are right, I hope you got lubed first. Thee Outer banks being an upscale (except for most residents) resort area has Really high home repair rates, but none even close to that. You are probbly stuck but you can warn people online, Yelp, and other methods unique to your area. Yes, they are crooks. A BBB complaint is a permanent record, but won't gain anything beyond spreading the warning. It's beer time.

[FrankenMech]

That service company should supply the lube at those prices.

[oldgeek]

All of the big companies are mostly criminals. They have to make $$ to pay for the TV commercials and advertisements. They have so called techs that dont know their ass from a hole in the ground. Here is how it works, nice friendly "tech" comes to your house and checks your system out while he checks you out. Senior citizens are their favorite prey, the tech tells them every major component is on the verge of failure. Then the sales team comes to visit and comes up with 3 quotes labeled Good, Better, Best. Homeowner picks the middle "Better" quote most of the time, sometimes the "Best" quote but rarely the lowest "Good" quote. The SERVICE TECH gets a NICE commission check if a system is sold. So why would the service Tech ever try to fix your system when all he gets paid is $20 an hour to do it, he would rather get the $300 - $500+ commission check. This is exactly how it plays out every single day, widespread. F****** crooks!

Here are a few things to consider when thinking about purchasing a new HVAC system.

HVAC systems no longer last as long as they used to, you can thank the EPA for that. The minimum efficiency requirements mandated by the EPA go up every couple of years, and the newer slightly easier on the environment refrigerants operate at higher temps and pressures which is harder on equipment. It gets even worse in the coming years. Every manufacture will have their own refrigerant blend that you will have to use on their system. The reason is that it has to do with them developing equipment that will meet the ever increasing minimum efficiency rating.

How old is your current system? All brands typically have a standard manufactures warranty of 5 years for parts good only for the original homeowner, and it must be their primary residence. If the system is registered with the manufacture when installed, that warranty is extended for 5 more years for a total of 10 years on parts from the manufacturer. it is as simple as that, you do not even need your warranty papers if it was registered. ANY service company can get warranty parts from the manufacturer. Don't let them tell you otherwise! Sometimes the service company will charge a warranty processing fee for obtaining warranty parts. Getting credit for warranty parts we have to pay for up front to repair your system can be a PITA depending on the manufacturer we are dealing with. I have personally seen instances when there is 3 years of parts warranty left on a system and the service company recommends changing the system out!
Always get second opinions and bids from a minimum of 2 other companies.


ALWAYS go with the "good" minimum efficiency system. The high efficiency systems break more often, are harder to fix, and cost more to repair. Do not associate saving energy with saving money, it never works out. High efficiency equipment costs more to purchase and more to maintain over the life of the system, usually eating up any money that you save on your energy bill. Of course if money is no object knock yourself out and go with the highest efficiency system you can, and get that warm fuzzy feeling from saving the world.

[FrankenMech]

The big company service techs always take shortcuts when installing the new systems knowing that it will cut the equipment life short.

Thanks for the warranty info. My system was registered with the manufacturer and installed Nov 2017 so it should be good for a few years. The brazed joints are bad, the charge only lasted two years. My BIL charged it back up with 134a. Now I need to find another local service company.

My original AC system was a DIY 12.8 SEER setup from Sears. Installed by me in April 1985 and lasted to 2016 and NEVER needed recharging, no leaks until a fatal dissimilar metals corrosion leak in the evaporator coil. 2017 was a miserable year without AC.

EDIT:

BTW, my new system is 'supposed' to be a 15.4 SEER unit. It does take slightly less power than the old system and the bills were a little less. I doubt that it would make 15.4 due to the shortcuts and installation errors the original installer made. I have read over the installation manual and have noted several errors. It is a scroll compressor. The system was purged with some of the refrigerant charge rather than evacuated. The throttle valve was placed wrong and the line was slightly kinked at the house wall. I have added a power interrupt delay timer to the condenser. A very short power outage was too fast for the thermostat and stalled the compressor. I heard it and shut the system down. I installed the interrupt delay timer the next week.

[90GTVert]

Thanks for sharing your expertise Scott. Also thanks to others that chimed in. I'm going to leave some reviews. They have 4.8 of 5 stars on google, with people talking of value. I wanted to be really sure that we're not just so broke that we don't know what the real world is like in HVAC anymore. There are some incomprehensibly rich folks in the county that they are based in, so they either work with a lot of them or we got the short end of the stick.

[niz76]

Unfortunately I don't see it getting much better anytime soon. Inflation, labor shortages, supply chain problems, etc. are getting pretty serious. Right at the end before I sold my Pool Service biz last year the supply prices were raising fast and parts availability going the opposite way. My supplier literally put up a dry erase board with % increases of a long list of items with a short blurb at the end encouraging us biz owners to raise rates accordingly...