Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Feb 12, 2023 13:05:25 GMT -5
So the urge to boost is strong with this bike... Its been running around great at 12PSI on 93 octane pump gas but since I know it CAN do 25PSI I want to *DO* 25PSI. To solve that issue without blowing up my engine again, I ordered this thing:  This is a GM Flex Fuel sensor, which will let me run E85 ethanol. Ethanol is nearly impervious to pre-detonation and also works as a charge coolant for the incoming air charge. Its what the turbo race cars like to run to push massive boost. And now I'll be able to run it in my scoot. E85 is a little hard to get around Oregon, only 1 station in the whole Portland area pumps it, but there are 3 more places I can order it in 5 gallon pails including the motorcycle shop right down the street so the flex fuel sensor will allow me to go between a 93 octane tune and an E85 tune without worrying about running outa gas somewhere far from a station I can use. |
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 413
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Post by sinfull on Feb 12, 2023 13:46:14 GMT -5
How big is your injector and fuel pump ??
Hopefully it is atleast double what was originally stock
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Feb 12, 2023 16:00:57 GMT -5
How big is your injector and fuel pump ?? Hopefully it is atleast double what was originally stock The stock GTS fuel pump is rated at 2BAR of pressure, and the stock injector rated at 158cc/min. The current fuel pump I have can go up to 5BAR(I'm running it at 4 bar right now) and my current injector can do 377cc/min. Now thats over 2x the stock, HOWEVER is still not quite enough for turbo on E85 at 25PSI so I ordered another injector that's able to do 554cc at 4BAR, and 619cc/min at my pump's max pressure. That should be well above my needs! |
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 413
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Post by sinfull on Feb 12, 2023 16:23:35 GMT -5
How low of a duty cycle can megasquirt handle ?? 3x the injector may have too big of a pulse to run on 93.
That was always one of our problems when we tried e85. Regular fuel running 1000 cc injectors would be good for e85, as soon as we tried 93 it would run insane rich off boost, and die at almost every light and start back up with a big boom out of the exhaust. On boost we could handle the fuel no problem, off boost is where we always had problems.
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Feb 12, 2023 16:51:44 GMT -5
How low of a duty cycle can megasquirt handle ?? 3x the injector may have too big of a pulse to run on 93. That was always one of our problems when we tried e85. Regular fuel running 1000 cc injectors would be good for e85, as soon as we tried 93 it would run insane rich off boost, and die at almost every light and start back up with a big boom out of the exhaust. On boost we could handle the fuel no problem, off boost is where we always had problems. Hmm, that's a good question... I'd not thought of that end of things. I was mostly worried about not going lean at 25PSI. I'm gonna have to look that one up! |
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Post by Lucass2T on Feb 12, 2023 20:53:23 GMT -5
Run two injectors, one for off-boost and the other one steps in when on boost.
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Feb 12, 2023 21:50:00 GMT -5
Run two injectors, one for off-boost and the other one steps in when on boost. Ohh, thats a good idea. I know thats how some of the big 4wheeled turbo guys do it. I'd have to figure out the manifold but if they can do it I should be able to... I got the flex fuel sensor in this afternoon and using a bit of denatured alcohol that the SDS sheet said should be between 30-60% ethanol I mixed some fuel and flipped on the sensor. It told me that I had a mix of about E40 in the tank... Better than the E30 I was aiming for.  Took it for a run, and MAN it liked it. A LOT. The ECU had bumped the timing a little and and increased fuelling and it resulted in (as expected) more power. I figured at E40 I could bump the boost a bit so I turned it up to about 16PSI and ran around the block again. It became basically impossible to not bounce off the rev limiter at that point as the clutch was slipping so badly combined with the fact I think I likely need heavier rollers in the variator now... |
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 413
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Post by sinfull on Feb 12, 2023 22:07:16 GMT -5
Running the e40 mix what was the duty cycle of the injector ??
You may be able to hit your goals with a lower fuel than e85 and able to keep your injector and not have the bigger injector.
Benefits of course are all not being reliant on e85. 1 gal gas tank and say you only need a few ounces of alcohol per 1 gal of 93. Treat it like a 2t and just carry a small jug of alcohol and maintain your ability to fill up at any gas station. Maintain your ability to actually run the bike away from home and not have a 5 gal e85 tank strapped to the luggage rack 😀
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Feb 12, 2023 22:12:21 GMT -5
Running the e40 mix what was the duty cycle of the injector ?? You may be able to hit your goals with a lower fuel than e85 and able to keep your injector and not have the bigger injector. Benefits of course are all not being reliant on e85. 1 gal gas tank and say you only need a few ounces of alcohol per 1 gal of 93. Treat it like a 2t and just carry a small jug of alcohol and maintain your ability to fill up at any gas station. Maintain your ability to actually run the bike away from home and not have a 5 gal e85 tank strapped to the luggage rack 😀 Thats kinda where my head is at right now. Reading around some of the turbo car forums is the general consensus is that above E50 doesn't have a ton more benefits as far as knock protection and only a little benefit with charge cooling. So I could absolutely go with a bottle in my backpack and mix at the pump. Which would be nice as E85 is HARD to get here. I swung by the only station that pumps it within 150 miles and they were closed today... I then went by the race fuel distributor who only had E98 and that worked out to about $17 a gallon with a 5 gal minimum. Which would work, but if I mixed down to E40 or E50 it'd go a lot farther. I wasn't logging when I turned up the boost but I only saw my gauge hit 60% duty cycle at full throttle on 12PSI with the laptop on the floorboards. So there's room to grow there. It was well after dark by the time I took a test run and its hard to dodge potholes at speed with no streetlights in my test stretch  |
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 413
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Post by sinfull on Feb 12, 2023 22:24:04 GMT -5
That sounds like a success to me. Be able to run normal street boost and not melt the clutch but still have the ability to go full retard at the twist of the boost knob.
What does the plug say with the blended fuel, obviously wide band says it is burning correctly but I would still check to see if I have a wet tip and not washing my cylinder and getting complete burns.
Yeah 17 bucks a gallon is a bit expensive, but if you can mix it down to keep it in line with current fuel prices it is a win for sure.
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Feb 12, 2023 22:28:19 GMT -5
That sounds like a success to me. Be able to run normal street boost and not melt the clutch but still have the ability to go full retard at the twist of the boost knob. What does the plug say with the blended fuel, obviously wide band says it is burning correctly but I would still check to see if I have a wet tip and not washing my cylinder and getting complete burns. Yeah 17 bucks a gallon is a bit expensive, but if you can mix it down to keep it in line with current fuel prices it is a win for sure. Yeah, all in all it seems like this is gonna work well. I've not yet checked the plug, its got a grand total of about 2 minutes of run time on it since I added Ethanol abilities. I ran it to the end of the street and back on 12PSI, dropped off the laptop and did it again at 16PSI then parked it inside and called it good for the night. Checking the plug and getting some duty cycle readings at higher boost are on my docket for tomorrow if it keeps from raining. If it does it'll be a day or two for the weather to clear. Even if it ends up being a bit MORE than current fuel prices its still a scooter, if I can keep off the throttle it should still get awesome gas mileage so if its a bit more expensive to fuel up its still only like 1.3 gallons |
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 413
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Post by sinfull on Feb 12, 2023 22:44:16 GMT -5
Yep, If you can get 4 or 5 tanks out of 1 gal e98 then that is not that big of a hit.
Definitely started to look into actually getting a efi system for my next engine. Seeing the potential that efi has Definitely has me thinking
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Kaos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 185
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Post by Kaos on Feb 12, 2023 23:02:05 GMT -5
Yep, If you can get 4 or 5 tanks out of 1 gal e98 then that is not that big of a hit. Definitely started to look into actually getting a efi system for my next engine. Seeing the potential that efi has Definitely has me thinking Its super good stuff. I used to be pretty staunchly carburetor then I tried Megasquirt... And I've been converting all my rides to EFI as fast as I can. Its just SO GOOD. Being able to tune EVERY BIT just by plugging in a laptop and spending a few minutes is AWESOME. No swapping jets, then plug chops, and repeat over and over. What took me all day to tune in before takes me 5 minutes now. |
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Post by 190mech on Feb 13, 2023 5:00:04 GMT -5
What about water injection? It was used a lot on WW2 aircraft and later for detonation suppression. The boost could be increased greatly for 'war emergency'. Germany used it the most, they called it MW50 (think that is Methanol/Water 50%)..
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Post by bigmatthew86 on Feb 13, 2023 8:23:49 GMT -5
All of that works but I think if you’re able to tune with 1 injector that will be the easiest. That E40 should get you to your goals.
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