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Post by billwill on Aug 29, 2023 9:09:42 GMT -5
I have had a few scooters and larger motorcycles over the years and for whatever reason, something with a small engine, where you’re extracting the most power has just been fun to me. I recently picked up a 99 Prebug that I’ve started building. For now it has its stock crank but this winter I plan on splitting the cases and going to town. I know there aren’t many options for the verticals but I had my eye on the MXS cylinder. It’s going to be either that or the newer Athena hyper race. If you have any tips or suggestions on the MXS I am all ears. Got a 4 race pipe that will work now with my contesta jug but I’d love to get a roost pipe if I go the mxs or Athena route. Cheers man and looking forward to seeing more. Is it the one on your avatar picture ? It looks good. 12mm crank, that's for sure. High end vertical engines are tricky. Because of the way the plastic cylinder cover is made, the air from the fan exits on the right side of the intake/reedblock. Strange design compared to the horizontal engine where the air must flow around the cylinder and then exit completely on the other side. So the vertical engines don't cool very well and doesnt pair well with high rpm setups. Never tested, but maybe block off the stock exit and open one kind of like the horizontal cover ? Roost are all in the upper rpm range, and nothing below. A friend had one on a stroked MXS (44mm crank, so 78cc). I'll look at the dyno sheets ! Yasuni C16 are really good for power and usability   If I had to build another prebug, my choice would be the new HyperRace. I did not test it yet, but the booster exhaust and Athena quality have me sold. 1mm thick ring vs 0.8mm on the MXS. But in the end, nothing specially wrong with the MXS. Either way, think of a variable ignition. MVT DD are great for street use. With that kind of exhaust and fixed timing, there is not enough timing down low. There's always a down and it's sluggish. And if you adjust it to have great response at low RPM, then there is too much timing at high RPM and an incoming hole in the piston  Yep that's her. It's coming along but many more things on the list for me to get through. Throwing in a new crank is the big one. Roost makes some absolutely wild and beautiful stuff. I'm thinking even if I go with the new Athena, I should be able to use the 4 race pipe I have now. That's helpful to know about the cooling design of the verts. Tinkering with the shroud outlets would be interesting. I know I'm only running a mid/low end cast iron kit now but I haven't seen anything above 260º-ish for now with CHTs. I might be jetted rich but I didn't think it was that rich and it sure doesn't run like its jetted that rich. Ring thickness on the Athena vs the MXS is something I wasn't aware of. All the more reason to go with the Athena then. Variable ignition would def be part of the plan at that point and MVT is what I had my eye on. I'd want to make sure I do everything I can to the electrical system with LEDs before then. I've heard that they still have struggle charging. How did you like the 2fast stuff? The quality there seems to be top notch too but not sure what your take would be based on some of the other brands you've had. |
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Post by fabster on Aug 29, 2023 17:03:44 GMT -5
Yep that's her. It's coming along but many more things on the list for me to get through. Throwing in a new crank is the big one. Roost makes some absolutely wild and beautiful stuff. I'm thinking even if I go with the new Athena, I should be able to use the 4 race pipe I have now. That's helpful to know about the cooling design of the verts. Tinkering with the shroud outlets would be interesting. I know I'm only running a mid/low end cast iron kit now but I haven't seen anything above 260º-ish for now with CHTs. I might be jetted rich but I didn't think it was that rich and it sure doesn't run like its jetted that rich. Ring thickness on the Athena vs the MXS is something I wasn't aware of. All the more reason to go with the Athena then. Variable ignition would def be part of the plan at that point and MVT is what I had my eye on. I'd want to make sure I do everything I can to the electrical system with LEDs before then. I've heard that they still have struggle charging. How did you like the 2fast stuff? The quality there seems to be top notch too but not sure what your take would be based on some of the other brands you've had. Setups are all fine until Sport Pro ishh. More than that, cooling becomes an issue. To help and stay reliable you can be jetted too rich, but then you loose part of the performance you were supposed to gain. Prebug engines performs also always less then Bugeyes engine with the same setup. Finish and details of the 2Fast stuff is amazing. Way better then my new Ottopuntouno parts, and LMR too. All 3 are low volume, but 2Fast details are more refined. Casting is on another level, inside and out.   Doesnt change the performances, I don't bother. But I respect 2Fast for delivering top notch quality. And from what I saw, in the end Otto puts down more power compared to 2Fast FL100R, so I went this route. Both are shipped in white boxes, but 2fast cylinders are tightly packed. Otto is a bunch of plastic bags and bubble wrap. Once again, it doesnt change anything on the track, but I can appreciate the care Massimo puts in his 2Fast brand. One more thing, the Ottopuntouno CNC crankcase arrived with a shot primary shaft bearing, a missing bolt and 2 pieces missing (exhaust and brake cable brackets, both pictured). I don't really mind, but not the same caliber. |
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Post by fabster on Aug 29, 2023 17:08:14 GMT -5
I would add :
CNC machining of the head and head cover are also better on 2Fast. Small details I must admit.
2Fast have been the dream parts for 10+ years. I'm chasing the last tenths, so I went with what I saw could get me there
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Post by billwill on Aug 30, 2023 6:07:36 GMT -5
Yep that's her. It's coming along but many more things on the list for me to get through. Throwing in a new crank is the big one. Roost makes some absolutely wild and beautiful stuff. I'm thinking even if I go with the new Athena, I should be able to use the 4 race pipe I have now. That's helpful to know about the cooling design of the verts. Tinkering with the shroud outlets would be interesting. I know I'm only running a mid/low end cast iron kit now but I haven't seen anything above 260º-ish for now with CHTs. I might be jetted rich but I didn't think it was that rich and it sure doesn't run like its jetted that rich. Ring thickness on the Athena vs the MXS is something I wasn't aware of. All the more reason to go with the Athena then. Variable ignition would def be part of the plan at that point and MVT is what I had my eye on. I'd want to make sure I do everything I can to the electrical system with LEDs before then. I've heard that they still have struggle charging. How did you like the 2fast stuff? The quality there seems to be top notch too but not sure what your take would be based on some of the other brands you've had. Setups are all fine until Sport Pro ishh. More than that, cooling becomes an issue. To help and stay reliable you can be jetted too rich, but then you loose part of the performance you were supposed to gain. Prebug engines performs also always less then Bugeyes engine with the same setup. Finish and details of the 2Fast stuff is amazing. Way better then my new Ottopuntouno parts, and LMR too. All 3 are low volume, but 2Fast details are more refined. Casting is on another level, inside and out. Doesnt change the performances, I don't bother. But I respect 2Fast for delivering top notch quality. And from what I saw, in the end Otto puts down more power compared to 2Fast FL100R, so I went this route. Both are shipped in white boxes, but 2fast cylinders are tightly packed. Otto is a bunch of plastic bags and bubble wrap. Once again, it doesnt change anything on the track, but I can appreciate the care Massimo puts in his 2Fast brand. One more thing, the Ottopuntouno CNC crankcase arrived with a shot primary shaft bearing, a missing bolt and 2 pieces missing (exhaust and brake cable brackets, both pictured). I don't really mind, but not the same caliber. Yeah I am torn between trying to tune the new Athena down a bit for street/longevity/reliability and just slapping on a mid/high end aluminum single ring kit on and calling it a day. Decisions... My lord those bits are a work of art from 2fast. It makes sense now how they can get away with the price they ask. You can really tell the difference with the granular and rough castings vs the smooth finish of the 2fast. |
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Post by 808ministroke on Sept 1, 2023 2:32:16 GMT -5
Thank you for clearing that up I would have thought that the too fast compared to the Auto would be very close how would you say the Odo cases compared to that of such RC ones and even the 2 Is fast passion cases, They sure look like they are More Finally detailed but it could just be all the shinyness blinding me from the reality that is hidden beneath the reflecting light!
Anyways my question to you really is is it worth it paying for the auto cases or are you better off just getting an RC1?
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Post by 808ministroke on Sept 1, 2023 2:32:51 GMT -5
Oh and I can't believe I forgot to also mention amazing freaking builds bro this shit right here is top-level top tier cream of the crop too stroke shit that we all love on this site we are so happy to have you here brother, Welcome welcome my friend.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 1, 2023 11:10:25 GMT -5
Anyways my question to you really is is it worth it paying for the auto cases or are you better off just getting an RC1? Don't mean to step on toes and I've never had 8.1, Polini, etc... case in my hands or seen them in person. I can look at price tags and answer that partially. You're looking at $1000-$1,500 cases vs $450-$500 cases. If you're just a street rider that likes a powerful scoot 3X the cost for cases is not going to be worth it. Most people doing power wheelies and ripping past four-strokes aren't obsessing over seconds or tenths of seconds. The RC-One is quite nasty in a little scoot for just riding around and there are other kits that work with it for more power. Do you absolutely have to be the fastest scoot in town or did you just hit the Powerball? If not, you'll probably have a whole lot of fun with an RC1... and you're prob still the fastest scoot in town unless you're lucky enough to live in a scooter rich environment. I'm curious about details of all out performance and overall as well though. Beyond the RC1 is so pricey to me that I've never really investigated them. |
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Post by fabster on Sept 5, 2023 16:15:23 GMT -5
Thank you for clearing that up I would have thought that the too fast compared to the Auto would be very close how would you say the Odo cases compared to that of such RC ones and even the 2 Is fast passion cases, They sure look like they are More Finally detailed but it could just be all the shinyness blinding me from the reality that is hidden beneath the reflecting light! Anyways my question to you really is is it worth it paying for the auto cases or are you better off just getting an RC1? Anyways my question to you really is is it worth it paying for the auto cases or are you better off just getting an RC1? Don't mean to step on toes and I've never had 8.1, Polini, etc... case in my hands or seen them in person. I can look at price tags and answer that partially. You're looking at $1000-$1,500 cases vs $450-$500 cases. If you're just a street rider that likes a powerful scoot 3X the cost for cases is not going to be worth it. Most people doing power wheelies and ripping past four-strokes aren't obsessing over seconds or tenths of seconds. The RC-One is quite nasty in a little scoot for just riding around and there are other kits that work with it for more power. Do you absolutely have to be the fastest scoot in town or did you just hit the Powerball? If not, you'll probably have a whole lot of fun with an RC1... and you're prob still the fastest scoot in town unless you're lucky enough to live in a scooter rich environment. I'm curious about details of all out performance and overall as well though. Beyond the RC1 is so pricey to me that I've never really investigated them. I think you got that right. I share your view. Worth it, no. Probably not. RC1 is the way to go. Pretty "cheap" too for a brand new case, considering what is included. But still expensive for a scooter, that's for sure. As for the Otto case : Crankshaft weights more and has a larger diameter. Bearings have 25mm ID compared to 20mm Reedblock seems great Precompression ramps, directing flow Is all that better ? Even if the Otto case has an advantage, it won't be much and we'll never know as there won't be any side to side comparison with the same setup on different cases... The price difference for the niceness (yeah yeah) of the product and the value add on the complete project, I said f*ck it, let's go. The best in my mind would have been the NeoCNC case. Minarelli transmission/gears, cylinder FL mount, Minarelli horizontal mounting points. But ultra rare, and I wanted to ride this season so... I don't like the Piaggio gears and CVT and kickstarter. I'm used to and prefer the Mineralli stuff. I might change my mind next month...  Oh and I can't believe I forgot to also mention amazing freaking builds bro this shit right here is top-level top tier cream of the crop too stroke shit that we all love on this site we are so happy to have you here brother, Welcome welcome my friend. You sir are one helluva writer  I'm not alone in all of this. Over the years I made good friends who share the same interests and have crazy ideas and skills. More on that later. Forgot to post one of my favorite picture, my sister on the Prebug at Napierville Dragway.  |
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Post by billwill on Sept 5, 2023 19:39:21 GMT -5
This needs to be marked NSFW... lol. Good Christ, almighty. |
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Post by Lucass2T on Sept 6, 2023 0:17:02 GMT -5
Its a piece of art yes.
Now we just wait for the first one to make cases that accept 125cc gp cylinders😵
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Post by 808ministroke on Sept 6, 2023 3:35:31 GMT -5
I've been looking for pricing on spacers to allow for twin cylinder, Don't know what it's called but basically the center part that goes in between the right and left crank case have of an original block that basickly provide the left and right half of the crank case for each Of the 2 cylinders I haven't been able to find a website or a shop that sell these, And I'm really asking because my good friend who has a machine shop and a lot of time on his hands said to me come up with a good idea for something to build and let's manufacture it. And this guy is no bullshit all business super-intelligent on everythand a hard worker on top of that so I came up with the idea fuck it let's make our own centerpieces for twin cylinder mopeds. Anyways I was just wondering if you guys can tell me where I might see some of these sold as to get a comparison for what they go for I'm guessing easily a 1000 bucks, Would be an awesome thing to manufactur Especially the fact that we could do twin minerali's piazzio's and even Honda's how we might even go into twin cylinder Harley's!!
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Post by Lucass2T on Sept 6, 2023 9:38:59 GMT -5
I haven't been able to find a website or a shop that sell these Its probably because they are only made on request and you'll get a price right then and there.to get a comparison for what they go for I'm guessing easily a 1000 bucks, I am guessing double....and in euros....
I can't really find any prices on none of the bi-cylinder kits that are around. Like I said most likely only made on request. |
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Post by fabster on Sept 7, 2023 19:25:00 GMT -5
Its a piece of art yes. Now we just wait for the first one to make cases that accept 125cc gp cylinders😵 It's now possible with the added material on the crankcase. Xtralongstroke are possible, with 54mm+ piston... Ideas... I've been looking for pricing on spacers to allow for twin cylinder, Don't know what it's called but basically the center part that goes in between the right and left crank case have of an original block that basickly provide the left and right half of the crank case for each Of the 2 cylinders I haven't been able to find a website or a shop that sell these, And I'm really asking because my good friend who has a machine shop and a lot of time on his hands said to me come up with a good idea for something to build and let's manufacture it. And this guy is no bullshit all business super-intelligent on everythand a hard worker on top of that so I came up with the idea fuck it let's make our own centerpieces for twin cylinder mopeds. Anyways I was just wondering if you guys can tell me where I might see some of these sold as to get a comparison for what they go for I'm guessing easily a 1000 bucks, Would be an awesome thing to manufactur Especially the fact that we could do twin minerali's piazzio's and even Honda's how we might even go into twin cylinder Harley's!! That's definitely a possibility. The carter is not the hard part though, the mating of the crankshaft is. MXS made a run in limited number. 49mm stroke Bidalot also made a kit with 44mm or 48mm crankshafts I remember seeing Cateno Miano center piece on Scooter-Attack 15 years ago. That's what comes to mind. Those were all for cylinder with studs, there is no FL mount centerpiece that you can buy yet, at least that I'm aware. I've seen some, but only one-offs Clutch and belt suffer from that much upgrade in power. Thinking it's engineered for a pretty mellow 50cc, that's understandable This is a friend's Honda Dio, in 2018. Already 5 years ago ! Twin Malossi Testarossa 94cc, so 188cc       |
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Post by fabster on Sept 7, 2023 19:29:47 GMT -5
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Post by 808ministroke on Sept 8, 2023 5:03:32 GMT -5
Woah....
NOICE!☆
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