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Post by 190mech on Aug 31, 2012 18:39:48 GMT -5
I figured the straight slot TD set up would do great,but maybe thats why the OEM stuff has curved ones.. :stumped:
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 31, 2012 19:41:35 GMT -5
Me too. I really thought I'd slap that in and see a big drop. It's a steady increase in RPM with the straight groove, but it doesn't hold any RPM. All the time I spent getting the fixed face how I wanted it paid off with the Hoca and stock TD though. It does a pretty good job. I was tempted to put the OR in it. It holds the revs. I'm still a little amazed each time I get on T1 and hit the gas and watch the tach stay steady. I just don't feel like splitting the case to get that starter boss off and I don't wanna cut it off cause I generally use e-start. Speaking of e-start... I removed it. lol Not something I'd do for my day to day ride, but for the purposes of trying to drop time... why not?  If you were really racing, it would be beneficial to ditch the starter motor, starter relay, wiring for the starter system, and even the battery. That's a lot of removal and installation in short time for weight that's not on the crank for me doing a simple test.  Nearly a pound off the crank.  The starter clutch measured 3.1mm thick where it sits on the crank, so I used 3mm of spacers to make up for it.  It feels a little better to me, but it's hard to tell for sure if it's quicker without checking the video. I was tired of riding up and down the same road and annoying my neighbors, so I took an 18 mile ride and annoyed different people. ;D For something setup with no consideration for cruising or manners, it does quite well. I even saw 54MPH sitting up with a mild tailwind. Between the timing and the tire it does so much better at low throttle and doesn't feel sluggish in town. Not my choice for a daily rider, but it is pretty fun to play with on back roads and such and to rev at people in town. This really makes me want to put 13.55:1 gears in one of my 90s. It seems like it would be a blast with deep gearing and 100cc torque. Not sure what, if anything, I'm doing next for the 0-35 stuff. If anyone has any other quick and easy ideas, shoot. If not I'll prob get a vid together early tomorrow. As of now the carb, CVT, and base timing are all in good states of tune. I have no way to change the timing curve. I can't raise compression more without screwing up the head or dropping port timing. I don't want to raise any port timings because I can't get compression back. |
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noday
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 149
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Post by noday on Sept 1, 2012 8:15:03 GMT -5
thanks for the pics. that start clutch system is very similar to the mongoose90/jr100 4T.
now you have me scratching my head. removing the estart should have had the same effect as a lighter flywheel ?
I get the part about the cvt needing more tuning with less flywheel mass.
to me less crank/flywheel mass = more throttle response with no or minimal effect on top speed or cruising speed. all mass changes should only affect accel/decel rates/response.
a straight slot in the TD just causes the CVT to change engine to final drive RPM ratios in a linear manner, without lag.
am I seeing this right ? or have I missed something ?
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 1, 2012 8:46:31 GMT -5
The straight groove TDs will be linear and more responsive usually, but they also can keep RPM steady with the right front pulley too. I have the front working very well with the stocker. It seems what works with the stock TD doesn't work with the straight groove. It does a pretty good job of being where it needs to be other than the shift with the stock TD.
I feel like it could knock off a couple of tenths not waiting for the shift and staying in the power. The thing is, it's gonna go to a better riding setup again soon. Spending a couple of days dialing it in just doesn't seem worth it. The OR I know stays steady and will get a little better takeoff gear... but splitting the cases to take the starter boss off for a test is a lot of work on top of having to tune that.
That and I think I may be getting to the farmers on my test strip. That's actually my biggest concern ATM. I see now they just stop whatever they're doing and watch me when I go down there. It's a public road, but they do own all the fields and such around there. It's prob weird seeing some guy stop in the road, take off, turn around, go back, stop again, take off, then leave. Repeat that 2-10 times a day when I'm tuning and then imagine that I've done that all summer long. Combine all of that and it really doesn't sound like a great idea to look for any more tenths of a second.
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Post by 2strokd on Sept 1, 2012 9:11:34 GMT -5
lol i know the feeling... Cool! I love the drag 0-35 blasts! I might have another set of 13s?
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noday
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 149
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Post by noday on Sept 1, 2012 9:36:04 GMT -5
about the farmers: I grew up in a rural area. On the whole, I rate farmers as more understanding and friendly than townsfolk.
I would go over one day and talk to them and tell them what I am doing.
one of my other hobbies is tropical fruit trees. Sometimes, going down a road, I see a tree that looks interesting. I stop by, introduce myself and ask about their trees. Almost always we find some common ground and have a nice discussion. maybe I am odd.
most times they offer me some of their fruit. I never ask for anything other than minor information about their experience with the tree. a few people I met this way have become friends.
may be that the farmer folks in Md are different ?
even so, I'll bet that if they know who you are and what you are doing and why, they will understand and it will be no big deal.
they may even join the forum to keep up with the projects.
I find that being honest, open and friendly goes a long way for acceptance of things, that at first glance, seems a bit odd to others.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 1, 2012 10:43:36 GMT -5
It's a family of farmers really. I know the oldest of them a bit. He and my grandfather were both very involved in the church and a local club and my grandfather was a farmer. When I was young I helped with sweet corn, watermelons, cantaloupes, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, turnips, squash, pumpkins, and probably something I'm now forgetting, so I have nothing at all against farmers. They're like anyone else, and they're all different people. I never see the guy I know a little out there. It seems everyone around here is on edge or odd lately, so I just prefer to avoid people and keep to myself.
At any rate, I really have no reason to continue the constant trials. If I see the guy I used to know a bit as I pass by, I will prob stop. If not, we'll prob all just be happy that I am not running up and down the road all day. lol
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 1, 2012 10:49:27 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 2, 2012 13:48:30 GMT -5
I think I'm gonna try testing some premix ratios. The primary reason is from past talk about moped folks using 100:1 and leaner mix ratios with AMSOil Saber Professional, the same oil I use at 50:1. I'm going to use the stock, ported, cylinder and piston. I plan to clean those up between mix ratios and do only a very quick hone on the cylinder. If any mix ratio has significant changes in wear or carbon buildup, we should be able to see them that way. The cylinder and piston already have some scuffing/damage, but I'll provide pics and such of each before and after to the best of my abilities so there, hopefully, won't be any confusion about what came from where.
The setup I plan to use needed an 85 main jet last time I tried it. I ordered 84 and 86 main jets this morning. That way I can adjust for the difference in oil percentage. I can't make it exact, but I can round up or down and keep it reasonably close since I've read people saying the temp changes in mix could be simply the change in fuel delivered. I don't think I'm gonna find an 84.15 main jet to be spot on or an 85.85 and so on.
I was considering trying richer oil mix ratios, like 40:1 and/or 32:1. I'm not sure if there's a point with an oil that is said to be for 100:1. I can't see people spending the money on an oil like this to use it 32:1. Please share any thoughts on that. I will at least start a 50:1 for something to compare the leaner ratios against. I plan to do 80:1 and, if that works OK, I'll try 100:1.
Next thing I could use a little help thinking about... testing. The only way I really know to test is to ride around.... but how many miles? I was thinking 100. I have no problem riding more if we think it's necessary, but gas and oil add up so if you think we can see results at 100 miles per test that's obviously cheaper for me than 200 miles per test or whatever. It would probably take a very long time to really test carbon buildup, but any major differences in wear and performance should show in 100 miles I'd think. I wouldn't be all that surprised if the leaner ratios soft seized. If it seizes, that seems like an immediate fail to me, no need to keep going or to try leaner than where it seized.
Let me know what you think.
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Post by 190mech on Sept 2, 2012 15:36:23 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 2, 2012 16:33:05 GMT -5
I'll be staying 50:1 or more oil when I'm not doing a project, so I'm not really trying this for future oil savings. I'm just curious after reading about so many moped riders at 100:1.
I'm definitely starting with the most oil first.
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Post by reveeen on Sept 2, 2012 17:01:51 GMT -5
so many moped riders at 100:1.
But most of those antiques pre-date "batch manufacturing in China" to minimum spec.
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Post by palezu on Sept 3, 2012 8:09:48 GMT -5
Now I might be really lost on this, but I started to think does the final drive ratio really affect acceleration in a CVT equipped vehicle? Because acceleration is all about the rear wheel hp, and with a CVT you always have the max hp the engine can produce on the rear wheel during acceleration. And so different final drive ratios (and so different tire sizes) don't speed up or slow down acceleration because they don't affect rear wheel hp. Swapping the rear tire made only a 0.7 second difference in your scooter, which I believe is caused only because the rear wheel is significantly lighter. Now I don't know if this is true, but if you have a pound lighter wheel, it will speed up acceleration a lot more than if you had one pound lighter frame. I think it might be true because the tire is gathering "rotational energy (or what  ?) " much faster than the rest of the bike, and the more it has energy, the harder is to add it (accelerate it further). And remember I'm talking about CVT equipped vehicles, not geared bikes what are completely different thing. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2012 9:31:57 GMT -5
The weight does help, but it's not all weight. While I haven't swapped gears around in scooters too much, I've swapped sprockets and gears in differentials enough to know that the mechanical advantage you gain is a big deal. Sure, you can adjust weights if needed and keep RPM the same and power won't change and so on, but all you have to do is ride something with 2 gear sets and you should feel the difference.
All else equal, the ride with deeper gears will feel much stronger taking off (unless it spins the tire(s)). It's about mechanical advantage, not WHP. I'm sure there are more, but one exception may be a turbo engine. Put really deep gears in one so it's not loaded and it will hesitate to spool and can fail to make the boost you're hoping for. Not exactly a big concern for us 2T scooter folks though.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 10, 2012 21:13:36 GMT -5
Piston came in today and I got it together. Rode 99.38 miles tonight on 40:1. I just got in and I'm still shivering a little bit. I forgot how cold a 60 degree night is and didn't bring my jacket liner or anything. lol I rode to an area I haven't been around for a long time and it's still overflowing with deer. Within 10 miles I had 1 deer hauling ass at me and then, very luckily for me, make a 90 degree turn and run beside me (slowed by then) and then back off the road... then a group right on the edge of the road getting ready to cross that I couldn't see till I was close... then a doe and two fawns that ran across, then beside, then one fawn kept running back and forth. I saw a few more in fields and such. I think I'll wait a bit before I ride there again at night so maybe the scooter and I will stay in one piece.
Hopefully 100 miles will show some sort of difference in mix ratios.
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?) " much faster than the rest of the bike, and the more it has energy, the harder is to add it (accelerate it further).