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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 27, 2012 9:50:50 GMT -5
Rain, rain, rain. Luckily not us, but some areas nearby got 13" in 8 hours yesterday. I think we got 4" or so here. I got tired of watching the rain, so at least I finally got fixed up a working horn again. Today has been pretty clear and the roads are drying up. I checked the RADAR and it looked mostly clear so I got ready to walk out to start working on the tune with the Leo Vince GP and it started pouring.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 28, 2012 16:53:15 GMT -5
I'm really not getting big MPH gains now, but acceleration has improved even more with the GP and cruising speeds are a little better. It's really become a lot more fun to ride with the big bore kit, slight adjustments, and a decent pipe. I tried to do a baby burnout for the snapping turtle in the vid, but he didn't seem to appreciate it. lol Can't please 'em all.  EDIT : I also realized I forgot to mention that jet size has been 90 for the pipes so far. It was just the CDI acting up before that made me think there was some big change in jetting. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 29, 2012 7:24:24 GMT -5
The Leo Vince didn't pick up any speed vs the GP, but it accelerates faster.
The power order seems to be SP3<GP<ZX<MRP. The cool thing about the cylinder mods is that each pipe is performing about like the pipe above it in the order when the cylinder was not modded. I'm hoping the MRP might let us see the first 0-35MPH pass below 10 seconds.
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Post by oldgeek on Aug 29, 2012 18:23:49 GMT -5
I am searching for a LV GP for my wifes scooter. I cant seem to figure out which one will fit her Yamati RX8. Do you know the model # you picked up?
I know I may need to fab some spacers, brackets and such. I am ok with that, I just have no idea which one to look for.
I am liking this builds progress.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 29, 2012 18:40:22 GMT -5
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Post by oldgeek on Aug 29, 2012 19:47:29 GMT -5
OK, that helps a good bit.
58cycle has a good list of numbers with scoots that each fits. I just didn't know what is similar enough to mine to use. Here is a list I have compiled so far.
3403 Morini Aprilla 2005 SR50 ditec
3404 Kmyco, Cobra, Dink, People, Super9, Top, Vitality, Yup
3405 2002-2008 Zuma
3414 Piaggio zip50 2009
7471 Yamaha Aerox50 1999
7474 Piaggio NGR purejet 50 2005
7475 Zuma 1993-2001
7476 Malaguti F-12 Phantom LC/AC 1998
7480 Malaguti F-12 Phantom LC 2007-20010
7481 Piaggio zip 1999
7482 Aprilia SR 50 Di-tech morini 2001-2008
7484 Malaguti F 12 R Phantom AC 2007-2010
7488 Yamaha Aerox50 2000-2001
7493 Aprilia SR 50 R Horizontal cylinder AC 2004-2009
There are a few # 7481 on ebay for a good price, but I think it would take some serious work to make it fit, cutting, welding, cussing, more cutting, and welding. :banghead:
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 29, 2012 20:23:22 GMT -5
It'd have to be almost free for me to want to cut it up. Change it too much and it won't work like it should.
3405, 7471, 7476, 7480, 7484, 7488 should all be Minarelli engines. I'd suggest leaving the rest alone. 3405 I know you can make fit, since I'm using that I think. I'd prob go with one for an Aerox or maybe the Malaguti.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 30, 2012 7:23:11 GMT -5
The MRP exhaust is the one that finally showed the big gains I had hoped for. Cruising speeds went up to around 50MPH. Acceleration was greatly improved. I wanted to see under 10 seconds 0-35MPH, it did under 9 seconds. ;D
Since it did so well, and this setup would be the clear choice for the best performance, I took it out to get a little more info. I started off by riding to check gas mileage. I cruised at 40MPH out of town and took a brief trip through town then 40MPH cruising back to a gas station. In town I tried to be easy on the throttle taking off. The goal was to ride like I did on the initial test of P49 and the same way I did for Project 90. That way we can compare fuel mileage numbers better. I was disappointed after riding 24.11 miles to see that I needed 0.535 gallons to refill the tank. That's roughly 45.1MPG. I really thought it would be better since I was staying 1/2 to 3/4 throttle to do 40MPH, instead of WOT like the stock setup. It did run rich in town. Since the revs were low and this pipe doesn't like low revs, it loaded up a bit cruising through town. It did fine, but if I tried to make it hit there was lag. I couldn't change needle settings because it needs to be where it is for part throttle at higher speeds or I hear spark knock.
The stock 49cc did 59.3MPG being WOT the whole time cruising and WOT takeoffs in town. The stock 90cc got 45.1MPG. I saw 50+MPG out of some of the modded 90cc setups. So, 45MPG isn't terrible, but it sure didn't impress me.
After I filled the tank, I rode more to see how fast it would go. I topped out at 57MPH, tucked down as low as I could get, on a flat stretch, with no wind to speak of.
The MRP is a strong performer. The only thing that keeps me from saying I'd choose it for sure is the noise it makes. With the Leo Vince ZX silencer fitted, it has been better. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be in town since I stayed out of the throttle. If you let it hit though, everyone looks.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 30, 2012 8:04:23 GMT -5
I think I'm mostly done with the project in it's current layout. The cylinder is setup well for the street and we've seen what the pipes do with street setups. I have no great desire to go racier with the big bore. I'm pretty sure I could see some gain with the MRP at a little higher revs, but it would be harder to get right now. The head is already machined flat to get 7:1. If I did more work to the porting I'd lower compression, so any small gains may even be canceled out by a drop in compression. It would also get even more "peaky" or "pipey". Not worth it to me. The main goal of mine was to see what really works best for the average street setup, and I think I've done that about as well as I know to.
I could try out reeds and carbs and airbox mods etc...., but I've done that in Project 90. If I don't see really noticeable gains from a larger carb on a 90cc that revs as high as this engine, I don't see why I'd see big gains here. I think the biggest gain would be if you get a good carb that has tuning parts available to get it just right and cooler temps. A larger fan would keep any of the setups I've used plenty cool though, and you can get one for $20 or less if you browse eBay. Reeds and airbox mods are in the same boat. None really did much. A $100 set of VForce3 reeds is not a good bang for the buck at this stage. The airbox, even with snorkel, works fine with the stock carb. If you do feel like you need more air, get some bigger jets and take the snorkel out. That works even with larger carbs.
What I wanna do now is basically play. I just wanna see how quick I can get it 0-35MPH. Just for fun. I'm not really gonna worry about top speeds or cruising too much. Nothing extreme, just a few more mods. My thoughts are timing advance, straight groove torque driver to hopefully keep revs more steady, and a smaller wheel and tire to have the effect of deeper gearing. I'm thinking those 3 things could probably make a big difference in acceleration to 35. Perhaps instead of advancing my stock setup, I may just put the light flywheel from T1 on here and get the revs up really quick. It's kinda pointless, unless you're reading/watching for drag racing tips lol, but it sounds like fun to me.
I'm still considering doing the oil tests I mentioned at some point, but I just don't know. I don't like the idea of taking a good crank and bearings and running them on a lean oil mix. If I killed the 49cc top end, I really wouldn't care too much.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 30, 2012 19:14:42 GMT -5
Scratch that NCY lightweight ignition idea. I installed it this morning and cursed it all day before I finally put the stock ignition back on. For some reason it lags taking off with the NCY. I tried all the way up to 30 degrees of advance and it still lagged bad on launch. It ran well after it hit, but it slowed by prob 1.5 seconds to 35MPH just waiting to hit. I'm really not sure what the issue is. I had a theory, but I think it's wrong. I'll throw it out there anyway, just in case there is anyone reading anymore that wants to think about it.
The MRP is pipey. It has a big dead zone. When I launch for the 0-35 runs I always hold the revs up. My thought is that perhaps the heavier flywheel has enough inertia to resist a drop in RPM as the engine is loaded trying to take off. The light flywheel still lags if I take off from idle and the heavy one still does fine. If I'm correct I guess it's the same idea. When the RPM flashed up and then drops as the clutch engages, the heavy flywheel doesn't allow it to bog down. I may be way off. Could be related to something else in the ignition.
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noday
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 149
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Post by noday on Aug 31, 2012 7:10:19 GMT -5
too bad you don't have a lathe.
you could add a plate between the flywheel and fan to add mass for the flywheel inertia to help with sorting this out.
as I read things, the energy stored in the flywheel goes up with the square of the speed(RPM)
a lighter flywheel accelerates easier/quicker but at the same time, it also slows quicker with any applied load
lots of times it would be nice to have a continuous log of speed and rpm v time to document what we feel or hear.
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Post by 190mech on Aug 31, 2012 9:14:32 GMT -5
We are reading every post Brent!!
Did you experiment with spark plug gap?I just finished some study of CDI's and found the source coil Ohm value has a big affect on how a CDI box acts in spark strength and advance also.Is your CDI box compatible with the little NCY set up?Didnt you just change out the CDI box recently?
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 31, 2012 9:28:47 GMT -5
I tried it with the CDI I had on the scoot already first. Then it didn't work so I used the one that came with the NCY and it did no better. I only tried the 2 gaps that have worked for me otherwise .024" and .028". Coulda tried wider I guess, but this iggy works great on T1 and I use .028" for it. I dunno, it seemed like the smartest answer at the time was just to go back to stock that works. I don't think it would take enough time off if it were right to be worth the irritation trying to get it figured out... and then to take it off in prob a week or less time cause it's staying on T1 that doesn't need headlights so bad. Even with the larger wiring throughout the system and 55W bulbs instead of 60W, the lighting aspect of the NCY I have really sucks. I dropped a couple tenths off of the 0-35MPH time with just advancing the stocker.
A note while I am thinking of it. The NCY iggy is showing about 20 degress of advance for me if I install it as far "retarded" as I can. It goes to something like 40 degrees of advance on the other side. Noting that cause when I used it on T1 the light wasn't picking up well or something and I had a hard job telling where timing was. Now I know why I needed the timing all the way retarded on T1 at least.
Got the next mod on now. Not sure if I will even be able to tell if there's a gain today with a 10MPH head/cross wind on the test strip. If nothing else, I'll get some pics up later.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 31, 2012 15:37:04 GMT -5
I know everyone loves the idea of upgears. With roughly 10:1 gears stock and a big tire and a fat ass... I'm not that crazy over the idea. lol I'm only concerned about 0 - 35MPH right now anyway, so I wanna downgear. Sadly, I have no other gears. What I do have is a small wheel and tire. Here's a look at the 2.75 - 10 next to what I normally use on the Tritons, a 130/70/12.   It'll work like a little deeper gearing, and it's a lot lighter. The 12" combo weighed in at 16lb 4oz. The 10" combo only weighed 8lb 3oz. It looks silly. When it's off the center stand the front sits higher than the rear. If it's quick, I don't care for these tests. Kinda looks like I had a flat and put on my donut.   I can't say I enjoy the feel of the handling. It's not terrible, but it definitely feels a bit odd at times. Otherwise, this one's a win. It has to have dropped a good bit from the time. The difference is very noticeable. The front even feels a little light at times. It's not even terrible for riding. 50MPH is at 9,900RPM. Not great, but not a big deal if you don't cruise WOT all of the time, and not all that much worse than before. Even looking a funny and handling a bit odd, I'd have fun riding it this way at times. I'll put all the "drag race" mods in a vid and show all the times that are successes at least so you can get all of the details once I'm done with the drag stuff. I kinda hate calling it drag... I mean it's 0-35MPH times are what stock cars do to 60MPH.... but hey, it's a little engine with run of the mill parts and a 300lb rider. I'd have to imagine there's a big difference in time if someone 150lbs ran it. I was really hoping to find that time for sure, but my 150lb buddy keeps getting tied up and can't even get out for a decent ride on his bike. Got my fingers crossed, but I'll be surprised if he makes it over any time soon. My next plan was to run the Hoca straight groove torque driver. I was hoping it would keep the revs more steady for at least the 0-35MPH bit. Without the shift, maybe it could hang just where it works best. That was the idea anyway. I tried all the angled grooves and different weights and it just didn't work. It did OK, but I never did get it to be as quick. It seemed like you'd have to be able to tune to 0.1g or something crazy to get it just right and match what the stock TD did. On top of being a little slower, it revved like crazy by the time I hit any cruise speeds. With my most aggressive setup I saw 10,800RPM at 45MPH. Least aggressive was 10,800RPM at 47MPH. 10,800 appears to be the limit as-is. The straight groove was a fail for sure. I went back to the stock TD. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 31, 2012 16:01:19 GMT -5
Tried lighter sliders, but 5g did the best. Lighter than 5g and it revs too much at the shift and slows.
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