Triton # 2 (T2) 49cc to 110cc & Nearly Everywhere In Between

[Elektrey]

interesting. Would those brake light relays that flash when you hit the brakes at first be against the law too?

And yeah, "Hell no" would not be something I would want to hear if I was that cop, makes it sound like you are being defensive or something lol.

[90GTVert]

I don't know the legality of brake light modulators off the top of my head. It seems to me they would be no different than the way I tap my brakes to try and alert people behind me (which I did not do tonight because I thought I was alone at the time).

I'm generally respectful to cops, but as I get older I seem to have less patience for the nonsense questions I get, especially when I'm not even sure why I'm being pulled over. Catch me doing 100 in a 50 and you won't get any hell nos it'll be all no sirs. lol I prob am too defensive, but as I've said here before I have lost 2 friends to drinking and driving related crashes, one drunk killed himself in his truck and the other was killed on his motorcycle by a drunk. It's not cool with me, though I do get that they don't know me or have any idea of my views on drunk driving. I don't claim to be correct in my response, but I won't swear I wouldn't say it again.

[scooterpimp]

It seems like no matter where you live, every other cop has thier own idea whats legal when it comes to our scoots. .& if you try to educate them on the subject they get super defensive / super cop mode!

[90GTVert]

Here's a vid with the LED and halogen lights compared so hopefully you can get an idea of the focus and intensity in case anyone's interested in these LEDs.


youtu.be/9TC5eW1pivs

[90GTVert]

May 19, 2015 22:59:07 GMT -5 Elektrey said:

Can you recommend just a CHT gauge alone? do they make those?

Sorry, I must have missed this. Yes, Trail Tech sells TTO series gauges that are single function. You can get a temp gauge in that series for about $35-40. Like the Vapor you can get different thermocouple sizes to suit different spark plugs. The only bad thing is the TTO series has no back light. They're battery powered so no need for any wiring but to the thermocouple. I suppose another downside is that the batt can't be replaced so the whole unit needs to be replaced if a batt goes bad. So far so good for me. Mine still work after years of use.

[Elektrey]

May 20, 2015 13:50:01 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

May 19, 2015 22:59:07 GMT -5 Elektrey said:

Can you recommend just a CHT gauge alone? do they make those?

Sorry, I must have missed this. Yes, Trail Tech sells TTO series gauges that are single function. You can get a temp gauge in that series for about $35-40. Like the Vapor you can get different thermocouple sizes to suit different spark plugs. The only bad thing is the TTO series has no back light. They're battery powered so no need for any wiring but to the thermocouple. I suppose another downside is that the batt can't be replaced so the whole unit needs to be replaced if a batt goes bad. So far so good for me. Mine still work after years of use.

Its a shame they dont make it with a backlight, I'd have to have one with a backlight.

Can't find any other reasonable priced CHT gauge either and 90% of them don't go past like 200 or 300/340

[90GTVert]

I think I may try to get to a show I don't recall going to on the scoot before. It's in the same place as the hot rod show, Ocean City, MD, but it's an import car show. I used to go in the Mustang to mess with imports and it can be fun. They have a pretty big crowd of nice cars sometimes, but nothing like the hot rod show. Tons of people there since it's June 21-22 and in the peak beach season here. So my goal now is to see if I can make this thing quicker. I'm not so much concerned about faster. What I'd really like to do is improve 0-40MPH or so, especially 0-30MPH so I can jump people off the line even harder... scoots, cars, whoever will play with me. I'm too heavy and this thing is too mild to be doing anything like some of the fast scoots forum members have and actually hang with most cars for a bit. My best chance is to leave the light hard. At least then I can watch some cars take off so a scoot doesn't beat them.

I'm gonna do a little here and there, pretty much just tuning, and see if I can get any more out of it. This setup has seemed on the slow side anyway, so I think it can use a little help even if I don't get to the show.

I thought the first thing I should do is figure out what the scoot does now. Before I changed the contra spring the other day, I took it for some 0-50MPH runs to average for better accuracy. Same setup as I had at the car show for the vid. I'm not exactly impressed with what I found, but not terribly surprised either :

0-30MPH : 5.8 seconds
0-35MPH : 6.8 seconds
0-40MPH : 9.1 seconds
0-50MPH : 18.1 seconds

I timed a 110cc build some time ago that wasn't really anything special (Hoca reg cyl, same carb, VFORCE reeds, same exhaust, Hoca vari, IIRC mod stock rear pulley) and that was doing 0-35MPH in 5 seconds and 0-50MPH in 10.4 seconds. With the deeper 13.52:1 gears that setup did 0-35MPH in 4.8 and 0-50 in 9.8. HUGE difference up to 50MPH compared to what I'm seeing.

I changed the well used stock contra spring out the other day, as mentioned earlier. With no other changes, I did some test runs and averaged them just now. New results :

0-30MPH : 5.4 seconds (-0.4)
0-35MPH : 6.9 seconds (+0.1)
0-40MPH : 9.1 seconds (0.0)
0-50MPH : 18.8 seconds (+0.7)

It is windy so I'm not so sure that's not messing up the 50MPH times a little. I did 8 runs in 4 different spots to try and keep it fair, but still when you get winds it throws off the higher MPH numbers in low powered vehicles to some degree. It's going to be windy for days though and I'm not concerned enough to wait it out. I'd rather be able to do more if I get the motivation to work on it.

The big thing I notice and believe to be accurate is the 0-30MPH improvement. I think the stiff contra is really helping to bite in and do work vs slipping. I went from slipping if I hit it from 5-10MPH with the old contra spring to getting the front light or off the ground by an inch or so. I noticed by watching the vids that I'm about 300RPM higher now from 30-50MPH so it may be that with some roller weight adjustment I can cure the top end losses, though it would still leave a lot to be desired vs those old times I posted. My MPH is not good now either. It's only wanting to top out around 52-54MPH in neutral conditions and revs start rising.

I think some angles like the torque driver groove selection and possibly fixed half front pulley angle may play a part here as well. Someone gave me a $50 prepaid credit card for Christmas and told me I had no excuse not to go to the car show when it came around. Turns out that card can't be used to pay at the pump for fuel, so I just ordered a new Malossi fixed face. I'm not sure that it will be what I need, but I've wanted a replacement for the one I broke fins off of anyway. Could be that sliders really do suck in the OR vari too.

I think my next step is going to be cleaning up the exhaust port as I intended to before the engine went into T2 last time. I don't expect much, if anything out of that, but it can't hurt. I should still have a set of good VFORCE3 reeds here too, so I may rob those out of T1 and see if they do anything for me. If there's horsepower in those mods I believe it will show up when comparing all of the results, especially on the top end.

[90GTVert]

I removed the cylinder and did a little to it today. Not a whole lot. I cleaned up the exhaust port. It had some really rough areas that I smoothed out and I did some blending. (See page 106 for original rough casting pics.) Here's how the aux ports enter the main exhaust port. Pretty abrupt.



I tried to blend the aux ports in better.



I tired to get inside of the aux ports a bit, but that was a mistake. I broke another flex shaft when the double cut carbide burr snagged because the port was too tight for it to fit. Luckily I bought 2 last time, not just 1. I'll have to remember to stick with stones or less aggressive bits for certain tasks, but knowing me this won't be the last one I tear up. The torque of the Foredom and design of the shaft make it so the second you make a wrong move you break the shaft.

Nothing spectacular, but better than it was at least.






I opened the cutaways on the cylinder skirts a little and tried to round out their edges some, but there's not much meat with a 54mm bore so it was mostly knocking off sharp edges.






I noticed a couple of skinned up sections on the piston so I sanded those spots down a bit.










When I installed the Trail Tech thermocouple in this head it was a really tight fit before.




I don't have the new thermocouple yet, but since the head was off it seemed like a good time to work on it. I cut away part of a fin for more clearance.






Now the spark plug is easier to fit with a thermocouple.

[iwiketuddlz]

Where did you order your fixed pully? I need one as well thanks ...Awsomw work BTW

[90GTVert]

ScooterPartsCo.Com

[Elektrey]

those numbers seem to be close if not slower than my 66.6c setup so I would think your 110cc build has a lot of room for improvement with the CVT.

[90GTVert]

As said I do agree there's a lot of room for improvement. ATM I'm not quite sure exactly what it is that the scoot needs to pick up what it's missing, but hopefully I'll find out. I don't really think the minor port work and reeds will do a lot for me, but it was worth a shot anyway. The quickest I went on a typical 70cc sport (9500RPM max) during my OR tests was 11.5 0-40MPH so at least I am doing a bit better than that. I timed 7.5sec 0-35MPH during Project 49 with a sport 70cc that was a little beefier, but still the generic Taiwan and Chinese parts I nearly always use. I will say the feeling of torque is not comparable though. Those have essentially nothing on the bottom end. This one will pull, and that's a big part of why I like my 90cc+ daily rider types so much.

I would invite the lighter folks doing timed runs to try with and without a passenger if it can be done safely. See if you can get 300lb on the scoot total and then compare. My weight really kills the acceleration. I've raced with friends years ago and if the scoots were neck and neck with equal riders when I got on whatever scoot I rode was 3-4 scoot lengths behind. They're all right around 150lb. I'd get a light friend to ride mine for comparison, but these days everyone's married with kids and even their own bikes stay parked or get sold. One says he's itching to ride again, so since his only bike now is the 150 in my garage that's not running maybe I can get him on T2 with a helmet cam so I can see times later. I told him I need to get his scooter running so I can bust his ass, so maybe I'll get to race him again someday.

[Elektrey]

Where do you have it tuned to shift? Maybe there are two "peaks" in the powerband and you are shifting at the lower one.

[90GTVert]

I wouldn't really call it tuned ATM. I figured that would come later so all I did was swap in the contra spring so it would put more tension on the belt instead of it flopping around and call it good enough for now. The clutch comes in and it slips up to something like 8600RPM, then it settles to 8200-8300RPM around 30MPH and pulls to 8500-8600RPM at 50MPH. I may be way off of what it likes, but in some very quick tests previously I found that if I go lighter on weights my MPH drops more. I don't think it's doing much above 8500RPM right now anyway. The only way I've seen it pick up speed and make it to 60MPH was with a stiff tail wind. It's just not pulling at that RPM as far as I can tell.

Once I get the porting and swap completed and do some runs with that I plan to work on tuning unless I notice anything else that may be holding me back first. I intend to tune the CVT with sliders and then see how it does with rollers. Not sure how it's doing now, but I know before the clutch was engaging after the belt was moving. The new contra may have fixed that, but I haven't looked.

The PG exhaust is also one of my suspects. I don't really think it's the issue, but if I never see much of a gain I may try the other. I've primarily used this one, and it's got a lot of miles on it. I don't really know what's in the muffler section of it, but I've never done any sort of de-coking. No idea what the actual mileage on it would be, but it's gotta be a lot... 20,000 or more.

[90GTVert]

I worked on swapping the reeds from Malossi MHR to Moto Tassinari VFORCE3 earlier today.






Got it together and then let the Threebond setup for a bit before doing a pressure test. Passed the pressure test so I could work on assembly.

I took a look at the PG exhaust. Made sure I could blow air in one end of the pipe and out the other. Then I checked the fit. It looked like I wasn't getting the alignment of the port and header that I thought because of my mounting bracket. I elongated the holes so the header sat where it should for hopefully a better port match.


I thought I better take a thorough look at the tail/brake LED, just in case. Well, as it turns out I can get it to go off if I really mess with the connector. I did think the cop was just pulling me over to pull me over with the alcohol question and then seeing far more pull overs than normal through town that night, but I guess it wasn't 100% fixed last time.

I ended up replacing both the light and the connector to get a good snug connection. I had a spare because when I bought the LED setup for the TaoTao is was a 2 for 1 price. Seems to be reliable even with me wiggling stuff around now.




I took it out for 6 runs in 3 different spots and here's how it did :

0-30MPH : 5.3 seconds (-0.1)
0-35MPH : 6.8 seconds (-0.1)
0-40MPH : 9.0 seconds (-0.1)
0-50MPH : 18.5 seconds (-0.3)

Not exactly major improvements, but I'm just happy that I accomplished something other than making myself feel better about the ports. It's still not really wanting to go any faster though.

The one thing I noticed riding around is that it now feels and sounds more smooth at part throttle. I assume from the reeds.