Triton # 2 (T2) 49cc to 110cc & Nearly Everywhere In Between

[90GTVert]

I don't think that guy's info is correct on the flow. The heater pump info is from me, so it could be wrong too. Still, I'd expect the inverter pump to be more similar to what Malossi's pump does. Before you give up on the inverter pump, you could test it. You just need a couple of containers, a little hose, a timer, a power source, and a way to measure the water moved. If that one moves as much water as I'd expect, you'll probably need a couple of containers of at least 5 gallon size. I was using 3 gallon buckets to do my tests, but you have to have some water left in the bucket so the pump doesn't suck air. I did 30 sec tests, and then just doubled that to get per minute numbers. Poured/scooped the transferred water into a graduated 1L container to measure. Gotta make sure the pump is primed before you start timing and putting water into the other container.

I'm sure it's not the most accurate, especially when multiple parties do it so procedure could vary a bit, but figures are likely close enough to at least have an idea of what the pump does. Seeing the videos of the inverter pump moving water, it's had to believe it moves less than the heater pump.

[90GTVert]

I finally at least got the cylinder and head and cases cleaned up on my 2nd attempt. First time, I walked out and opened up the garage doors, got about 10 minutes in and a friend pulled in. I tried to keep working, but he clearly wanted me to pay attention to him so I quit. 5 hours later, after I got in about 20-25 sentences (seriously), he was done talking and headed out. By then I was tired of the heat and the concrete. No interruptions yesterday though.

This is about as good as it's gonna get with the head. I used the end of a carbide cutter to knock off all of the displaced metal from the beating that it took and sanded it a bit after. Then I worked the sealing surfaces on sandpaper and glass. Did the same to the deck of the cylinder, cleaned the base, exhaust, cases, studs, and threads. Tried to flush out the cases a little and used compressed air. I didn't really see anything come out of the cases, so either I'll tear up another piston or the debris pretty much lodged in the piston or went out of the exhaust.




Wiseco stuff came in. I threw away all of the bearings and clips I had that I'm not 100% certain of their origin. Not at all worth taking a chance anymore. I'm sure the Wiseco stuff can fail too, but so far they haven't. I've had 2-3 wrist pin bearing failures now and I think 2-3 circlips come out and ruin stuff. Most of my circlips just sitting around were the double ear type that I won't use anyway because they're the ones that have failed.




Still gotta assemble it. Haven't been terribly enthusiastic about it. Looks like there's no way it should be a strong runner. If money were no issue, it would not go together this way. My friend did "reassure" me when he was here by saying, "It's done dude. Just give it up."


I did notice that PFS has 2 53mm LC kits left and they're on clearance for $240. I noticed that it doesn't use an o-ring on the bore, but uses a metal gasket for the bore and and o-ring for the outer seal. Browsing LC kits, that's not common so I don't know if that's good, bad, or doesn't matter. I know the Autotech kit for $300 works great without spacers or adjustments though, and I'm sure I can catch another 10-15% off or bonus eBay bucks deal eventually if I'm willing to wait should I need a new cylinder kit. PFS kit does say it's the same 77.9mm cylinder height that the Autotech cylinder is, so it may be just as plug and play. 53mm bore is 99cc vs 103cc with the 54mm. I don't think that matters much, but cylinder skirts are the same diameter so I don't think any transfer area is gained with the smaller bore.

www.partsforscooters.com/169-153-90cc-Big-Bore-Head-Kit_3


I ordered a 4L bottle of MotoChill on amazon to get it at the lowest price that I've seen it. Unfortunately I'll be paying an unanticipated cost. FedEx rang the doorbell so I closed off the door between the outside door and the rest of the house to keep my dog, Monty, from getting out or to anyone. As I come back in from getting the package, I hear a loud crack and he busts through the door. Monty was 100.00lb when he went to the vet last week, and it looks like he ran and jumped at the door and put his paws out to kick it in. Granted, this is just an interior door and not a security door, but I didn't expect him to break it. I already had to put a lock on it because when I tried to put him in there when guests came, he learned to turn the handle with his teeth and pull the door back to open it. He's also figured out the push down handles on one door in the house. Now he's kicking in doors. I think he missed his calling as a police dog.

[90GTVert]

I realized that I couldn't just assemble the engine. Forgot about the piston. It'll hit the crank at BDC out of the box, so it went in the lathe to lose a little of the skirt. Also quickly knocked the sharp edges off of the skirts and windows.




Then I got it all together and let the RTV set up before doing a pressure test, that it passed.




I thought about doing a compression test, but decided I was just going to see how it runs instead so I put the rest of it together and added coolant. All kinds of springs on the pipe now.




I was certain on the first kick that I should have done that compression test. Not much there. Pulled out the tester and it got just over 90psi. The tester wouldn't hold pressure for long so it may go a little higher, but the feel of the kick is enough to let me know it would be weak at best if it ran. I wouldn't be riding a 103cc liquid cooled setup if I wanted weak. Didn't manage to save any money, but I did waste plenty of time.


Also noticed white powder on the negative battery terminal. I don't think I've ever had that with a scoot before, but I guess that's what I get for spending so much time with no real charging playing with the NCY stator.

[190mech]

If you can get it running,ride it a while and see if the compression comes up...

[90GTVert]

I got it to fire up with the help of an unlit propane torch. Didn't wanna go otherwise. Got it running and it felt weak just trying to rev it. Really slow to respond to throttle even on the stand, like maybe I had 2HP on tap.

I revved it again and it came to a dead stop with a clang. The kick starter would not move.

I pulled the head off and found a small piece of metal jammed into the head and piston crown and then a needle bearing in the cylinder and piston.




I couldn't move the piston, so I took the engine out of the scooter. Then I put the wooden handle of one hammer on the piston crown and tapped it with another hammer till I got the piston to move. A nice new deep gouge.




As I took the cylinder off, still kinda stubborn, I realized that the cylinder skit was broken.








Here's the new piston.




I don't know if the stuff came out of the cases or from the pipe. I was thorough with the pipe, till I heard no more rattles before it went back together. The cases were flushed out with brake parts cleaner and compressed air.

This time I held the case so the opening faced the ground and a big catch pan. I used a transfer pump and pushed gasoline through the cases. Rotated the crank and moved the hose from the pump a couple of times.






Didn't see anything come out of the cases. I can't see anything in the cases with a flashlight, but I couldn't before either.


The initial abrupt stop was a couple of days ago, so I had ordered a new piston and gasket set. I figured I'd at least run it again to make sure nothing else damaged any other kit. After seeing the skirt, I don't think I'll be using this cylinder again.

I ordered the same kit from Autotech355 (used his email address to get a discount [e-mail] ) after I felt how weak it was too.

[oldgeek]

Damm, That sucks.

[ryan_ott]

I fell your pain.

Do you have any cylinder you could throw on there just to run it and make sure that won’t happen again to the new cylinder?

[90GTVert]

Prob have an AC jug around that I don't care about so I could run it for a few minutes to find out if anything else shows up in the cylinder.

The only real bright side is that I didn't just go immediately to a new jug. Being cheap helped in this scenario.

[gsx600racer]

Thats crazy. If it were me, id split the cases unless you have a friend named Superman. It would suck to miss another piece/s and have it happen again.

[2strokd]

Dang it! Hope its ok this time around.
I just flushed an engine too. I hung it upside down from the rafters and used a can of WD40 along with compressed air.
Fingers are crossed.

[190mech]

Ive flushed a lot of bottom ends over the years,but I was younger then,now I worry about a needle or piece of cage sitting in a main ball bearing waiting to sling out...

[ryan_ott]

What would you guys give the life expectancy of a 12mm wrist pin needle bearing?

I just did some quick math on my build and at 60 hours of use at 9-10,000 rpm that would give the bearing well over 30 million cycles. I feel bad for that little guy.

[190mech]

Too many variables to get a reasonable number,,RPM,load,oil mix,fit,etc..Any way you look at it,the cycle count is huge,,cage always breaks first,'crowded rollers'(no cage)isnt a good idea either as they can cant(lean) and skid instead of roll,then its over with soon..Darn 2 strokes,soo simple,soo complicated!!!!

[ryan_ott]

Sept 4, 2018 17:08:53 GMT -5 190mech said:

Darn 2 strokes,soo simple,soo complicated!!!!

So true... to have a reliable, well performing 2T your just shy of a PhD...

[AtariGuy]

Strange that the 139qmb has no needle cage...