Triton # 2 (T2) 49cc to 110cc & Nearly Everywhere In Between

[jackrides]

Once upon a time I bought expansion chambers for a multi-cyl in pieces so they could be arranged and welded for max road clearance. So, how to weld (have welded). I decided on heliarc to avoid having the heated metal combine with oxygen and getting brittle which would fracture under the high operating temps and vibration. Mr. Welder thought I was nuts. Well, a day without that is like a day without sunshine. Anyway, they never cracked. The rear mounts did (front was spring secured to the cylinder) but a stout hose clamp (safety wired) kept the pipes from dropping.

[90GTVert]

Jul 11, 2019 9:45:57 GMT -5 jloi said:

Hey guys , I did some googling etc . but haven't really found out / decided . what kind of welding is appropriate for welding to frame . I read where MAPP can produce brittle welds. Anyway could somebody in the know fill me in on right type for DIY . Local shop needs $75 . minimum which is fine - except I can't afford that and think I can do it myself . just need to be pointed in right direction .

 pretty sure I could end up with some kind of minimal home/garage  DIY setup ; could just use a little guidance

I remember it from 9th grade shop.

I don't know about super cheap, like under $75. You could invest a fairly small amount into a flux core machine and do fine for frame mods. All of the frame mods that are done to T2 are flux core. As far as holding up; I did the foot pegs years ago when I was newer to welding and they are awful looking welds (which I still do to this day more often than I'd like). I am 300 pounds and I have stood on them many times. I don't really have much problem with frame welds cracking. This exhaust stuff is way more tricky and subject to problems. If the frame stuff were that hard to do right, I would have died years ago on this thing.

I have a Hobart Handler 140 now that I really like and I think it's easier to get a better result, but I used a hand me down Campbell Hausfeld that a friend got from Wal-Mart cheap for years and it got the job done many times. Finally sold it at a yard sale, still working, in May. You can find some posts around the forum about Harbor Freight flux core welders that can be had pretty cheap. One thing I recall off the top of my head was a pro-welder (Clank; unfortunatley not active anymore but you can find some stuff by him) saying to not use HF wire. Get something better like Lincoln Tech or Hobart. There are also mods that can be done to improve the machine that I believe were discussed here. If not, I'm sure there's a wealth of info on the HF welder to be had by googling or other cheap options.

[ryan_ott]

The brazing rods can work on the exhaust, I’ve made a few with just them. I have had cracking from time to time likely from too thin or too thick on the filler. You can smooth it out afterwards just taking the torch to it. Those bottles get expensive which is why I adapted a larger tank to my rig. Is it ideal, no... does it work for its intended purpose, sure. Those rods you used were the flux brazing rods, there was also silver filler and Tig filler.

My handmade pipes tended to get thin over time or on repairs is when I’ve noticed.

I’ve had a ebay welder for 12-15 years that always worked well. Besides messy welds I never had issues with it. I’ve upgraded to a Hobart 140 and a Tig machine recently. The welder was still working when it went to the curb. I’d look at a cheap welder for the long run over spending a $75 minimum charge. You can find them for under $100.

[jloi]

Thank you guys . I appreciate the guidance . I was just looking around on the web. I'm sure over time and more info gathering I'll find something suitable by the time I'm ready to get one . It does seem to me like what I need is some sort of minimal beginners flux welder ; just from what I've read so far. Maybe some giant holiday sale will come up and I'll find one for about 80.00 .
got a neighbor 2 doors away , bought a small flux ? mig and tig from HF for about 80.00 I think .
Still have lots of other scoot issues to take care of 1st .

[90GTVert]

I got the Peace Pipe back today! Go ahead and park those 4Ts, the streets aren't safe for them anymore.




John remade the header in 18ga instead of 20ga so it's a bit thicker. Unfortunately, I caused him what sounds like a major PITA. He said it was "fun" and that the 18ga was just thick enough that he couldn't use the rollers to make pieces and hand to hand form it all. I think I've said it 20 times already, but thank you once again to John. I love the Peace Pipe.




He also redid the mount bushings. He said the play there may have caused or contributed to the failure. Could be my fault. I can't remember if it was before the crash or when it got it back together after, but I put the radiator mount bushings that I didn't use in there in place of the bushings that John originally supplied that he made with pieces of hose. They may have been more flexible. The new setup is more stiff than I ever remember it being though, and he gave me some spare material so I can make sure it stays that way.






Just put a coat of flat black on the whole pipe. Now I'm gonna see if I can find some beefier springs for the flange to header connection.

[90GTVert]

I ordered 3 sets of springs from Yoshimura with swivels on one end for ~$5.50 per pair. 1.8, 2.3 and 2.6". Not really sure what I need. The mounts are roughly 2 3/4 - 3" apart on the pipe (one is farther away than the other because I eyeballed it when I added the second set of mounts). Like the 2.6" springs say 2.6" long (82mm). Ummm. 2.6" is ~66mm. Guessing perhaps that's how far apart the mounts can be for them? I looked at some 2T pipe replacement springs, but they didn't list specs. Looked at Aircraft Spruce and McMaster-Carr and the Yoshis seemed to be as good as anything. 1 of the 3 sets should work, and eventually I'll prob end up with a 4T pipe with a slip-on (if I ever work on the SSR Lazer) so another set will likely get used there. They won't go to waste.

[90GTVert]

It took a couple of minor adjustments to get the pipe on. The pipe and the bracket was about 1/4-3/8" too far forward, hitting the water pump and not allowing the mounting bolts to line up. Drilled 2 new holes and then reinstalled the pipe.




Then I took T2 off of the bench and it seemed harder to push. Just figured it was the rear brake adjustment. When I went to reach for the choke, I realized that the pipe was right up against the tire. It had 1/4" spacers under the bracket already, so I made up 1/2" spacers in the lathe. Those fixed it.









I took it for a 30 mile ride. Seems to run basically like it did. I think it's a bit softer now. I was already thinking it probably needs a touch more ignition advance because it was not as good as it once was before this either and I had taken some timing out when I reassembled the engine after the new case half. Who knows how the spark plug is doing also. Plus, I haven't done the tuning runs to see how the main jet is yet. That's actually what I wanted to do today, but with storms in the area I figured I may not have time.

The good news is that it doesn't really spark knock right now and I seem to be able to use whatever throttle position I'd like. This may be the smart way to keep it setup, but I want it back to trying to jump when I quickly open the throttle.

Only odd thing was one random bog. I was on the way home, cruising roughly 60, when it bogged for a sec out of nowhere. I think it went back to being fine right after. CHT was about 280 and coolant was cool. I got back into it and rode the rest of the way home (5-6 miles) mostly WOT without issue and I had rode to town earlier mostly WOT without issue. Clip below is that random bog.




The speedo is still just a bit off. I keep forgetting to correct it since the lower profile front tire. Prob not more than 1-2MPH off. Gotta do some WOT tuning passes. Prob gonna advance the timing. Belt is prob getting dangerously close to the end of it's life by now. Less importantly, it rained on me so now all of the shiny bits have water spots. I should also check the coolant. I haven't flushed it since getting it back together so it may be dirty from the last time an o-ring failed.

[190mech]

Did you lose tach signal during bog?Could have been a chunk of carbon got across the plug gap..
Sorry the pipe didnt line up,used my 103 AC motor,think every cyl company has their own port exit angle!

[90GTVert]

Aug 2, 2019 18:33:57 GMT -5 190mech said:

Did you lose tach signal during bog?Could have been a chunk of carbon got across the plug gap..
Sorry the pipe didnt line up,used my 103 AC motor,think every cyl company has their own port exit angle!

Unfortunately I can't see the tach in the vid when it happened and I didn't check it as it happened.

Didn't post those adjustments as complaints. The rebuild is greatly appreciated. It's me. I post a lot of stuff.





While I'm posting; Matt from Hot Street Scooters asked me in an email what I buy regularly. He said he'd like to carry more quality parts. I of course told him that 45mm stroke cranks and 53-54mm LC BBKs would be good to have. lol Don't think that will get anywhere, but at least I tried.

[ryan_ott]

I’m glad to see it on its 2 feet again. Now it’s time to rack up some miles, burn some oil and cause some trouble.

[oldgeek]

May have been a brief seizure brought on by a pocket of cold air around the thunderstorms?

It sounds really good though, and solid cruze 60+

[90GTVert]

Got one thing done this morning. Did a quick ride to check GPS vs trip odometer and correct tire size settings in the Vapor. Looks like it was 3.4% high, or 2MPH at 60.

Conclusion : Keeping tire size settings accurate = Worst performance mod ever


EDIT : Plus, I filled up a 2.5 gallon gas can last night. Refilled the tank from a 30-something mile ride and it was about half gone. Then refilled it from 36 miles last night and today and now there's just enough fuel left to cover the bottom of the gas can. So I'm still right around the 30MPG mark. I was hoping for a stroke of luck and the big case leak was throwing it off.

That and plug fouling are my only motivation to try to mess with the carb at all right now. It does great other than those things and I think the softer feel will change with timing.

[190mech]

Have you tried a different CDI box yet?A common problem in the dirt bikes was weak spark once the CDI ran for a while..

[90GTVert]

I did just 2 passes with 2 main jets today. I changed out the spark plug first, to be sure that it was functioning well. Here's the plug that was in there. Smelled like oil. Before upping the pre-mix, it would smell more gas-like. I've noticed that now I can see a cloud behind me just leaving my driveway and it's clearly smoking more at idle and revving. Didn't seem to act any different with the new plug.


I started with the 100 main that has been in there and then moved to a 95 main. For each jet, I rode 6 miles. I did 1 acceleration pass in each direction using landmarks. I also checked speed at a second spot one way. Then I held it WOT till the end of the road. Turned around, WOT, back to the accel test and then WOT mostly back to home. I figured that would give me plenty of info. Accel 1 is somewhere between 1/8-1/4 mile. Accel 2 is 1/4-1/2 mile.

Main Jet	Avg Speed Accel	Speed Accel 2	Max Speed	Max RPM	Max CHT
100	55.8MPH	59.3MPH	61.7MPH	10,040	291F
95	55.9MPH	59.8MPH	62.4MPH	10,060	300F

A mild improvement going to 95 from 100. I didn't really want to go any lower than the 95, because it's hot and humid right now. Honestly, I'd stick with the 100, but again that plug fouling and gas mileage. Maybe the 5% change in jet size will amount to 5% better fuel economy (32MPG)?


Then I wanted to see if I could get anything from advancing the ignition timing. Since I had to have it apart, I looked over the water pump drive and it all looks and feels good. I also checked the coolant and it looked mostly OK, but maybe just a little dirty. I decided to drain it and refill it. Figured that would be good enough since it wasn't very dirty. I did dump some plain water in and flush it that way, but no real flushing.


On to the ignition timing. I haven't bothered to use a timing light on here for a long time, so I don't really know where it's at. I just have a mark where it was before I backed it off on the stator. I moved it just over halfway toward advance between the old mark and the current position. Figured I'd play it a little safer to start since I know it always spark knocked in spots before.




Here are the results of that, added to the table from above for easier comparison.

Main Jet	Avg Speed Accel	Speed Accel 2	Max Speed	Max RPM	Max CHT
100	55.8MPH	59.3MPH	61.7MPH	10,040	291F
95	55.9MPH	59.8MPH	62.4MPH	10,060	300F
95+Adv	57.7MPH	61.0MPH	62.3MPH	10,200	322F

It seemed to like the advance. Felt a little better. Didn't spark knock anywhere that I checked rolling the throttle. CHT is a little more than I expected, but I wouldn't rule it out just yet.


Unfortunately, that's not the end of the story. It managed to fill the expansion tank while I rode and rain coolant out, while the coolant temp went up to I think about 165F, where it was normally sticking around 140F.

I had just drained and refilled it, so my first thought was that I overfilled it or it had and air pocket. I let it cool and then took the cap off. It was a little low on coolant. It heated up immediately to 145F. I added coolant and revved it and it dropped to 110 or so. I put the cap back on and it shot up to 135. I took the cap back off and filled it again and it sat at 115F for a while. OK, fine. Must have been an air pocket.

I took it down the road and it did the same thing. Started spewing coolant and heating up. Brought it home to let it cool. That's where it's at right now. I may try one more time to see if an air pocket comes out, but I'm sadly thinking that it may be putting it's own air into the coolant... aka a head seal leak. This thing is normally super easy to bleed. I basically fill it up, then run it for a minute with the cap off and keep the radiators near full. Done. The only times that I have seen it repeatedly have air pockets have been when o-rings failed.

I suppose it could be that the igntion advance created more cylinder pressure and heat and it pushed it over the edge. Without spark knock though, that is either unlikely or at least very unfortunate that the edge is not where I need it to be. Could very well be that it was just time for it to go basically. The o-ring lasted me the whole car show (2 days) in May and then failed on my next ride when I wasn't even being as hard on it.




In addition to that stuff, I noticed that one exhaust spring disappeared. Luckily the Yoshimura springs are supposed to arrive Monday.


Then I saw a spot on the floor and realized that both of my front fork seals are wet. I'm gonna check here and try to reorder the kit that I got last time and cross my fingers.




I thought I was gonna get it in better shape and then ride to a friend's house tomorrow to finally show him my wheels and then take it to the beach in the near future like I've wanted to do for the last month. I've barely got to ride it since the May car show. I'm damn frustrated ATM, but what can you do?


EDIT : Oh, and to make this all more fun... I thought I had about $400 saved to either start figuring out a spare engine or maybe work on the SSR instead. Got a notice that my hosting (for 49ccscoot.com) is expiring. Renewed that, bought the springs and just bought seals for $28 and now I have about $1.30 of that left. I could buy a nut AND a washer!

[90GTVert]

Aug 3, 2019 18:02:05 GMT -5 190mech said:

Have you tried a different CDI box yet?A common problem in the dirt bikes was weak spark once the CDI ran for a while..

No, I had to swap not that long ago from the Malossi to a stock CPI. Malossi didn't last that long. Last stock CPI CDI went for years. Not even sure what I have as a replacement, but I think I've got bigger issues now before I worry about that.