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Post by ryan_ott on Aug 17, 2019 20:43:13 GMT -5
Yeah soo fu€$ing simple to keep a 2T alive with a decent tune. It’s something the 4 stroke crowd will never understand.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 17, 2019 23:11:30 GMT -5
I can't do it. I've got a sheet of 0.020" copper and I'll see if a copper gasket will do it. It really shouldn't be this hard. If that doesn't work, I'll build something different. I have a 70cc AC sitting on the shelf. Swap some stuff over and it would prob be good to go, but I just don't care about it.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 19, 2019 11:16:48 GMT -5
Prob not smart for me ATM, but I saw that scooter-attack.com sells the TPR 86cc kit (crank & cyl) for basically $400 shipped. It's actually just under $410 (US) shipped by UPS for the kit and an extra gasket set. That would be $100 more at scootertuning.ca, so I called them and they said it may be a bug on my end in the price I see at scooter-attack. I told them it shows that price once added to the cart and the guy said OK, use the price match link and we can do it but I'm not sure if he means the price that they show before it's added to a cart or what I see in cart. Screenshot of Scooter-Attack's priceLast time I tried to do this with a company, they got the price fixed everywhere so no one could get it cheap. Assuming that doesn't happen, I'm gonna go for it. That's basically the same thing that the iron 54mm kit and Taiwan crank that I have now would cost all together so even though that's more than I want to spend right now, it's prob not gonna get much better unless my 2nd engine is a 70cc. The next question would be if this actually works tamed down or if it's either high strung racing or nothing. I know I'm planning to try the Peace Pipe with it, but I'm not sure how small I can go for a carb. I may try the 21mm. Scooter-Attack says minimum 28mm though. I'm prob asking too much for this to actually not rev high and use a small carb that fits easily. My logic is that an 86cc at 10-11,000RPM shouldn't require much more air/fuel than a 103cc at 10,000RPM, but I have no experience with these high end kits so I may be way off. I know it's not going to make it's peak 20+HP like that, but that's not what I'm after. |
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Post by 190mech on Aug 19, 2019 11:55:44 GMT -5
Glad you are gonna try it!Perhaps adjust the cyl for the lowest possible port timings and get the squish right and hope for the best..I worry about the exhaust bridge giving up at long full throttle runs,but time will tell..
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Post by 'O'Verse on Aug 19, 2019 13:43:32 GMT -5
Finally... coming over to this side 😭 Your gonna love it. That peace pipe might work. If not you can pick up a cheap c16 for probably $200 discounted somewhere. Or somebody might still have an old race pipe laying around. Glad your buying the kit. 👍
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Post by iwannascoot on Aug 19, 2019 14:56:54 GMT -5
Prob not smart for me ATM, but I saw that scooter-attack.com sells the TPR 86cc kit (crank & cyl) for basically $400 shipped. It's actually just under $410 (US) shipped by UPS for the kit and an extra gasket set. That would be $100 more at scootertuning.ca, so I called them and they said it may be a bug on my end in the price I see at scooter-attack. I told them it shows that price once added to the cart and the guy said OK, use the price match link and we can do it but I'm not sure if he means the price that they show before it's added to a cart or what I see in cart. Screenshot of Scooter-Attack's priceLast time I tried to do this with a company, they got the price fixed everywhere so no one could get it cheap. Assuming that doesn't happen, I'm gonna go for it. That's basically the same thing that the iron 54mm kit and Taiwan crank that I have now would cost all together so even though that's more than I want to spend right now, it's prob not gonna get much better unless my 2nd engine is a 70cc. The next question would be if this actually works tamed down or if it's either high strung racing or nothing. I know I'm planning to try the Peace Pipe with it, but I'm not sure how small I can go for a carb. I may try the 21mm. Scooter-Attack says minimum 28mm though. I'm prob asking too much for this to actually not rev high and use a small carb that fits easily. My logic is that an 86cc at 10-11,000RPM shouldn't require much more air/fuel than a 103cc at 10,000RPM, but I have no experience with these high end kits so I may be way off. I know it's not going to make it's peak 20+HP like that, but that's not what I'm after. Just out of curiosity, what are you after? I would think you would want all the horse power you can get. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 19, 2019 16:15:29 GMT -5
Got a reply to the price match : "Thanks for the extremely precise price match. I’ll go ahead and sell it to you for 410$ USD shipped with UPS 2 days.
We normally don’t match the prices from Europe, as they are much closer to the distributor and probably not paying the high rates shipping like we do.
So the total for the same cart would be 410$ USD, delivered to your door.
Let me know if i should go ahead and sent a payment request.
Thanks!"I told them to go ahead and send the payment request. A few cents more, but Scooter-Attack was also out of stock for 10-12 days, plus the European shipping time. Can't beat that. I know it's not going to make it's peak 20+HP like that, but that's not what I'm after. Just out of curiosity, what are you after? I would think you would want all the horse power you can get. I'm after something that I can actually ride and I don't think it will do that in full on hyper race mode. May not do that even if I try to tame it down. Also, I don't want to have to rewire everything and buy an inner rotor ignition if possible. |
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Post by 190mech on Aug 19, 2019 17:02:21 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 19, 2019 17:11:15 GMT -5
I was thinking about that too. I'm not honestly sure if it is the small stuff. I think I have a small taper flywheel from a clone. Unfortunately not even lightened. Guessing it would be the same as the large taper otherwise. It won't fit in the lathe, but for some reason I was thinking I have a stock crank here with a small taper. I have no plans to use a stock crank with anything, so I don't know if the shaft could be cut off and put in the lathe in order to mount the flywheel for lightening. The small difference there prob shouldn't be my biggest concern anyway. Been a while since I've even thought about small cranks and variators, but IIRC swapping the boss is all that changes with the OR vari from large to small and I'd need to pick up an OR drive face for small splines and some small spline stuff like the keys and starter pawl and such. My plan was literally to build an entire spare engine, so I'm not worried about using the existing crank. Maybe not entire. I don't know that I can afford to do another 3rd support with S6 gears and the whole 9 yards right away, but at least the engine being it's own entity with cases cut to specs from TP for the 86cc. |
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Post by 190mech on Aug 19, 2019 18:50:49 GMT -5
Small spline has the low gear that a big spline will never get due to small boss sleeve..BUT,as Frits Overmars has said many times,a long thin shaft will flex under power and badly needs an outboard support bearing,so take your poision and drink it...
Just chuck up the whole crank on the CVT side to turn the flywheel(duct tape the rod),should cut nice at low speed..
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Post by ryan_ott on Aug 19, 2019 21:52:05 GMT -5
I’m going to assume that if it’s meant for the Yamaha it’s small taper and spline. The only differences is what you mentioned the boss and the small kick start parts. OEM Zuma parts are easy to come by. Ive got a spare flywheel Spaz gave me awhile back you can have if needed.
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mattyslimz
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 222
Location: Northern Virginia
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Post by mattyslimz on Aug 20, 2019 5:15:12 GMT -5
Trigger pulled... I’ve been with a mixture of ScooterAttack and ScooterTuning on my recent go fast parts. I was able to save a lot with ScooterAttack on certain things and it’s only a couple more dollars for 2 day ship. I think this kit is gonna do everything that 103 did and than some. Top Performance is known for their reliability within their cylinders I’ve heard.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 23, 2019 19:36:47 GMT -5
The TPR 86cc stuff came in yesterday and I opened it up today.  Part numbers (9926560 is the PN for the whole kit) :    The styrofoam box with the crank it in made a lot of noise and it felt like the crank was moving around when I picked it up. Even my cheap cranks from Taiwan keep the crank pretty still. That made me think back to the claim that these TPR cranks may not be true, which I've come to understand that only 1 person reported if I'm correct on that. Anyway, when I opened it up, it was the included bearings that were really making the noise. The crank could roll and jump around some though. More than the simple cardboard box that my last 45mm Taiwan crank shipped in. I think it's probably fine, but I'll put indicators on it before I do anything else with it.     Included wrist pin bearing. Should be obvious in pics, but it also came with crank seals and a sticker.  On to the cylinder kit. This is really quite different for me. Not only hyper race, but aluminum single ring stuff is pretty foreign to me. I've basically always ran cast iron sport stuff.  Here's the modular head. Another first for me.      The piston seems pretty small compared to the 90-100cc stuff. Diameter a bit, but it appears to be much shorter.  The included circlips are the style without ears, like the Wiseco CW12 clips that I've been using lately because I got tired of eared clips coming out and tearing up cylinder kits.  The exhaust port is freakin' huge when you're used to single ports or ports with barely functional auxiliary ports. You can also see how they've made it so coolant can surround the port.   Transfers and boost ports. So much cleaner than what I'm used to looking at. Also, they aren't exactly teacup transfer ducts like 190mech has told us are good, but I can at least see that they have a little of that going on compared to the 90cc stuff that is just a straight up wall on the inside.     I laid a base gasket for the 90cc over the base gasket for the 86cc out of curiosity. The 90cc requires more case cutting, as you can see by the taller boost port and wider transfer areas, but actual port area is probably pretty close given the bore differences.  While I'm at it, here's some info from the instructions with the Top Performance 86cc kit.   Whenever I actually start working on that, I have a new set of CPI cases. Got 'em a couple of months ago when oldgeek informed me that the eBay seller with CPI parts was back again. Couldn't resist. I have another new set of CPI cases that's been here for a long time that's already cut for a 45mm crank, but I figured this way I can cut to the specs that TPR provides.  Moving on... I finally took the engine out of T2 today. When I pulled the spark plug, it was very wet and smelled like coolant and gas, so this time it pretty much totally failed. I guess ThreeBond 1184 was not that great for this particular task.  Doesn't look like just one failure point as it did last time with the Permatex Ultra Grey.      Since I'll be modifying the head or cylinder, I wanted to get a squish check with this setup since it has been ran, torqued, and ran again and should be about as tight as it's gonna get. Ended up with a minimum of 0.78mm in one area. The rest were 0.8-0.85mm. Actually a little tighter than I intended.  I got the copper sheet out to check it's thickness myself. It's listed as 0.02" C110 copper. I got about 0.0199" with the mic, which is about 0.5mm.  I'll probably end up aiming for 0.4mm off of whatever I cut, so the lowest squish will hopefully be 0.88 and range up to 0.95. That's more like what I wanted, and closer to where squish was on the first check before the base gasket compressed when I switched to this head design. Pretty much planning to go with trying to take that off of the cylinder deck and then I guess make a copper gasket to cover both the inner and outer sealing surfaces, but still use the o-ring for the outer section as well. That's my understanding of what John recommended, so if I've got that mixed up please let me know. |
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Post by pitobread on Aug 23, 2019 20:12:20 GMT -5
Make sure you anneal the copper after you cut out your gasket for maximum sealing.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 23, 2019 23:15:18 GMT -5
Make sure you anneal the copper after you cut out your gasket for maximum sealing. Thanks. I never did that with the AC stuff, but I was thinking I should in this case. |
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