Triton # 2 (T2) 49cc to 110cc & Nearly Everywhere In Between

[90GTVert]

Anyone know with certainty if the MVT DD06 with RJ34-6 CDI is ground to kill? MVT's diagram shows an open switch, but I think it's just their designation for a switch and not saying it's normally open or open to run. I found some roundabout answers that don't give me much confidence with a quick search, but I figured there have been enough of them used around here that someone probably knows for sure.

Not wiring anything up yet, just trying to make my own diagram. Realized the Digital Direct has no plug wire so I ordered an NGK CR4 8054 plug wire with boot. That one is the 90 degree version that uses the terminal nut on the plug instead of terminal threads.

Also ordered a stock Zuma regulator/rectifier. I like my Trail Tech full wave unit that keeps voltage steady so I wanted to get something other than the Chinese replacements that I have around for half wave.

I'm gonna try to run the lights from the battery as they have been and see how that goes.

[90GTVert]

The die came in today. Didn't take a lot off, but it certainly looks better... and screws in now.

[ryan_ott]

The DD06 is what I’ve used in the past on the clones, Vento Triton. I didn’t do any extra wiring. So yes it’s ground to kill.

[90GTVert]

The Yamaha rec/reg came in today so I could get pics and finish my wiring diagram. I like to figure out what I'm doing "on paper" first with wiring for stuff like this. Hopefully this is correct.

[90GTVert]

TPR Part 18 vid is up. Making a dial indicator holder for ignition timing setting or finding TDC :
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxJBgjZu3c

[90GTVert]

More stuff that I'll need to figure out before I get into the ignition :

TPR says 20° spark advance in their manual. They say no more than that... not if that's base timing or timing at any RPM. I started that way with the stock ignition, using that as base timing (timing at idle or roughly 2000RPM). Then I advanced it more. Now it's around 25° BTDC. With the stock CDI, it should be something like 20-22° BTDC around 10,000RPM. That's based on other tests of timing that I've done on other engines, but the stock stuff seems to back off about 3° by 10,000RPM.

The Digital Direct seems to be backing off timing by 20-25° from base timing, based on other people's info. So if I set my timing at idle to 20°, then it will back off to something like 0° TDC or could even be around 5° ATDC. I know we wanna put heat into the pipe to extend the rev range, but that sounds extreme to me to be asking it to fire when the piston is at TDC or already on it's way down. On the other hand, setting base to 40-45° BTDC in hope of matching their 20° spec doesn't necessarily sound right either. That would prob be pretty aggressive for part throttle operation at cruise RPM... although that may just be how it goes with a real hyper race setup. Sounds really fun to try to kick start as well, unless the CDI is operating at very low advance below say 1,000RPM for that purpose.

I'm assuming I should probably aim for more like 30° of advance at idle and then let it retard the timing to 5-10° at full song.

[pitobread]

You want about 15 degrees wherever it "comes on" the power. 8-9k?

30-35 at base is fine.

5 ish at max rpm.

That's why mapping it is so necessary. If you dont know the sweep you cant get it in the right range.

[pitobread]

Also they may be saying set it to 20 flat for kinda a compromise to give the low end more oomph

Hondas are flat at 17.

Old malossi is flat 16

[90GTVert]

Nov 8, 2019 15:35:26 GMT -5 pitobread said:

Also they may be saying set it to 20 flat for kinda a compromise to give the low end more oomph

Hondas are flat at 17.

Old malossi is flat 16

Still, not that tough to clarify in a manual. I guess first they don't really care and second there's possibly some liability if manufacturers of any part go specifying things too precisely.

I've translated French to English via google and MVT's instructions seem to be largely useless to me. The first outlined box says this (minus some proper characters):

"avant le pmh si la cylindree est de 50cc, si la cylindree est superieure a 50cc il doit etre cale a 0.35 mm avant e point mort haut, de meme l eclairage ne doit pas depassar 55w"

Which google translates to :

"before the pmh if the cylinder is 50cc, if the cylinder is greater than 50cc it must be stalled at 0.35 mm before the top dead center, and the lighting must not exceed 55w"


2 issues there, aside from understandable translation errors. First one; it seems like there's a spec missing for a 50. Second, the lighting is stated to be 50w max in their own wiring diagram. So they're either saying lighting output changes depending on timing or they just contradict their own specs. As someone that can be (possibly too) detail oriented, I find this to be irritating. As large as some of these companies are, they can't have someone review instructions before they go out? /rant

[pitobread]

Mvt is truly horrible their instructions are absolute garbage and they are not great to deal with. But they make the only product like theirs on the market.

[jloi]

"(possibly too) detail oriented" --- you're not alone in that.

[90GTVert]

Older updates that I forgot to post...

First, it was a thing of wonder for me to drain coolant after multiple rides and see it come out clean (aside from the junk that was already in my drain pan). Who knew life could be this way with an LC scoot?




I sanded an ugly old engine mount that wanted to bind during install when I first put the 86cc into T2. Being in a rush, I never clear coated it and it ended up looking worse than ever. When the engine came out recently, I sanded it again and this time gave it 3 coats of clear.





Now onto more current affairs. I just finished making this thing. A timing indicator for the new ignition. It's shown on the 103. I haven't even taken the water pump cover off of the 86 yet. The problem is, you give me a lathe and it actually makes me less productive because I'm spending my time on a timing indicator that isn't really necessary instead of actually installing the ignition. I'll prob put a vid up of that process at some point so you can watch me struggle.

[190mech]

Nice work!From my reading on 2 stroke timing for race stuff has a high initial advance then tapers to around 15 on the pipe(like pitobread said),then tapering down more in over rev..What kills a setup like this is riding at part throttle(high initial timing) for an extended time which results in a fried piston..That high initial is there to give strong torque build which allows getting on the pipe quickly then retards to a safer spark lead..Thats why all the old flat line stuff is always around 15 or so degrees=no melted pistons at part throttle..Tuning the carb to a rich 'stutter' at part throttle helps,but the best way is crank the throttle wide open from a stop and keep it there!

[Kenho21]

Nov 12, 2019 18:20:09 GMT -5 190mech said:

Nice work!From my reading on 2 stroke timing for race stuff has a high initial advance then tapers to around 15 on the pipe(like pitobread said),then tapering down more in over rev..What kills a setup like this is riding at part throttle(high initial timing) for an extended time which results in a fried piston..That high initial is there to give strong torque build which allows getting on the pipe quickly then retards to a safer spark lead..Thats why all the old flat line stuff is always around 15 or so degrees=no melted pistons at part throttle..Tuning the carb to a rich 'stutter' at part throttle helps,but the best way is crank the throttle wide open from a stop and keep it there!

Pardon my ignorance (still learning), but is this to say once you get an internal rotor ignition like this, you’re kind of committing to a build that lends itself more toward hyper-race (on/off switch throttle), otherwise there’s not really a point in the performance iggy?

[190mech]

Yes sir,that is correct!