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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 2, 2021 13:52:06 GMT -5
Do the E and C gauges have any output ports, perhaps with similar specs? My curiosity at the expense of your efforts is how fast changes happen to the two during as you said detonation. It seems really strange that a mixture change could be needed in the tiny air density difference between your place and the beach. Maybe forty feet of elevation? I agree that a tiny change in elevation should make no difference. I don't think it's the elevation. It's always close enough to mostly work so I can't say that I've studied it, but something changes. Happens every time. I get it right the day before or even that day. Unload and the idle is off. I also notice that I get a bigger swing in performance there. It runs harder as it cools if I ride into the night at the beach when it cools. I assume it must be related to moisture in the air. So far, no one has showed up and whooped T2 light after light so for now I've just been calling it good enough. Once Ryan puts wheelie bars or a big stretch on the Zuma, then I guess I'll have to figure it out. lol No outputs. I saw some people talking about AIM and how great it is for fast response and full features, but it's thousands. I'm sure there are much cheaper solutions. Real world, I don't need it and most of the time wouldn't even want it. I'm only spending my time on graphing EGT CHT and coolant for video and maybe 1 time kinda curiosity. I dunno about doing this again for detonation. First, I'd prefer to avoid that. I'm a bit gun shy after piston after piston and so far I'm over 2 hours into graphing 38 seconds of WOT... maybe another 30 minutes to finish that. Detonation happens and I can hear it, but hanging out there is scary. Even with the Dell I'll have a spots where I get detonation, but I'm not willing to back off of the timing that has proven to improve acceleration. Richening the needle can get rid of it with the Dell, basically over-richening it for cooling and losing response, but I tend to just get the heck out of that position when I hear it and keep the better throttle response. As with everything, I'm sure it can be conquered, but it ends up with do I really care enough to spend that much time with 100 needles, slides, etc... when practically it works well for me and maybe it will always happen... because 2T. You can probably find some aviation related info, because that seemed to be one of the big sources of info when I was searching for EGT stuff.
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Post by oldgeek on Sept 2, 2021 13:55:57 GMT -5
It's not just elevation. Humidity can have a very noticeable effect too. I agree. Throw air temp into the mix and it easily adds up to a significant change.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2021 18:03:34 GMT -5
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Post by hippo008 on Sept 3, 2021 21:19:42 GMT -5
Brent I commented this under your EGT video but I think you should be looking into a data logger. A DIY solution wouldnt be too hard with Arduino. There are some ready in-box solutions from MyChrons you may be interested in. It would be neat to map EGT, CHT and Coolant Temp over time versus throttle position. Heck maybe even start measuring CVT temps. You would have some major data to tune against.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 3, 2021 22:44:22 GMT -5
Brent I commented this under your EGT video but I think you should be looking into a data logger. A DIY solution wouldnt be too hard with Arduino. There are some ready in-box solutions from MyChrons you may be interested in. It would be neat to map EGT, CHT and Coolant Temp over time versus throttle position. Heck maybe even start measuring CVT temps. You would have some major data to tune against. There's part of me that is excited about the idea of data logging. Then there's part of me that thinks it sounds awful and like yet another way to get overly obsessed with details. Side note; I saw your comment notification, but there is no comment there. I didn't delete it so either you did or YT is being weird. It happens fairly regularly that I get notified and then there's nothing there if I go to read in full or reply.
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Post by nikola11 on Sept 4, 2021 7:41:41 GMT -5
I have just watched your new video and all I have to say is good job, I have a great amount of respect for you. You have helped many with your videos and you make very interesting content. Keep on going. I have one question that I have always wondered since I have started following your channel a few years back. I dont know if I have missed this in one of your videos but I was wondering what 2 stroke oil have you been using in the TPR scoot?
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 4, 2021 7:47:03 GMT -5
I got up at 5 because my parents wanted to have a yard sale so I moved everything out for them. Then at 6-something I thought they were just murdered over yard sale change because it sounded like a firing squad. Apparently the neighbors decided to get a group of friends together to try to blast geese out of the air first thing in the morning.
Normally I don't take T2 out much before 8AM so I don't wake the whole neighborhood, but I'm pretty sure anyone nearby had a shotgun alarm clock anyway so I took an opportunity to do a test run when there's not much traffic. Some guy at the yard sale commented "wow that thing is loud" and "he's too big for that thing". I wanted to do one more pass before I put the DellOrto back on anyway, just to be sure I could see where it's lean so I'll have an idea of where the 2nd power jet needs to be able to start.
It heats up quick basically anywhere from 1/4 throttle on. I don't know if it gets hot enough to melt anything for sure exactly in which spots, but it heats up about as quick at say 3/8 throttle as it does WOT so I let off and blip it and such. After seeing how quickly it failed on me last time, I'm pretty paranoid about the piston. If the power jet can even reach 1/4 throttle, I guess I'll eventually try to get it installed to start working there and band-aid most of the throttle range. I have no idea if having a jet at 1/4 throttle will make it also work well enough that 1/2 is OK. The other tricky part is that I don't know how it does with other rods. This one clearly sucks.
I guess I'd want to use the 2-2 super lean that got me to times near the Dell's and try the 2nd power jet with it. That's the only thing that makes sense to me ATM, because any of the richer needle setups that seemed like they could work to actually ride weren't going to do well for acceleration runs. I guess the other option is to try to lean out something that seemed closer. I really don't know what I need to do, which is exactly how I should feel nearly a year into trying to tune a bolt-on carb. lol
I got a little longer WOT run than last time, plus it's a bit cooler this morning, but it ran up to 1204F max before I let out. It seemed to be leveling out right around 1200, so WOT should be pretty close. I can either ride around just touching the throttle at 30-35 or pretty much wide open.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 4, 2021 7:50:44 GMT -5
I have just watched your new video and all I have to say is good job, I have a great amount of respect for you. You have helped many with your videos and you make very interesting content. Keep on going. I have one question that I have always wondered since I have started following your channel a few years back. I dont know if I have missed this in one of your videos but I was wondering what 2 stroke oil have you been using in the TPR scoot? Thank you! I use AMSOil Dominator Racing mixed at 32:1 (4oz/gal). I used to use Saber Professional at 50:1 (2.6oz/gal), but they changed their rating to only include lawn equipment and such so I switched to Dominator just before I did the TPR. So far, as far as oiling is concerning, everything looks way better than what I was used to with the new oil and heavy mix. That said, it's also my first aluminum LC kit, so that probably plays a role too. Regardless, I don't have any plans of switching oil or mix ratio.
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Post by captincvmn on Sept 4, 2021 9:47:50 GMT -5
I’m curious to see how similar the EGTs are from Dellorto to Lectron
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 4, 2021 15:10:34 GMT -5
Had a guy tell me that he's never melted a piston in years of 2Ts. MX, street bikes, motorized bicycles... never. Just jet the carb right, it's easy and EGT is over-complicating things. I told him that everyone I know with a fast 2T has melted pistons and you aren't trying hard enough if you haven't, but I then became curious how many of us are out there wrecking stuff. Help me out with a quick poll question here for my own curiosity/education : 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/29336/destroyed-stroke-piston-tuning
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Post by aeroxbud on Sept 4, 2021 15:28:07 GMT -5
I've lost count. Especially the ported RD350 YPVS, and TZR250. Trying to keep up with mates on 600cc means chasing the red line.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 6, 2021 15:50:05 GMT -5
I realized on the first install that the braided wire on the EGT is a pain to manage with threading in and out of the exhaust. T2 comes apart a lot. I don't want to totally re-route the 6ft cable every time. Seems like a compression style fitting may have made more sense to easily slip it out of the pipe and quickly reinstall it later. I looked around after recalling that Ryan mentioned possible issues from extensions. TheSensorConnection has a FAQ, and it sounds like you could run a lead up to 50ft if you use the proper wire and connectors. Their FAQ and other sources mention copper wire as a potential issue, and that's likely what most people try to use to extend them. If you can extend them that far and add couplers, then I think adding couplers near my pipe to make it quick to remove/install the exhaust/engine should be no problem so I'm ordering a pair of those.
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Post by 190mech on Sept 6, 2021 18:30:40 GMT -5
I have tons of type K thermocouple lead (red/yellow) from years of installs,be glad to send you some if thats what you are using..
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 7, 2021 13:34:21 GMT -5
I have tons of type K thermocouple lead (red/yellow) from years of installs,be glad to send you some if thats what you are using.. I'm not extending anything. The wire is a little long as-is so if it loses a bit, it may be better. Connectors are already ordered. Thank you though.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 9, 2021 11:52:22 GMT -5
I did what I said I wouldn't... bought another metering rod for the Lectron. I went over a bunch of info in the tuning log that I have from the Lectron. Here's the most brief summary that I can give you without leaving out too much.
Quick reminder : First number is the series and larger numbers mean more fuel. Second numbers are the taper and the higher the second number, the more taper so it will supply more at low throttle. The tricky part, to me, with all of this is that metering rod height settings change it all and make it hard to look at in a linear fashion.
- 6 series rods deliver too much fuel for 3/4 to WOT. - 4 series rods seem to be on the borderline of too rich for 3/4 to WOT, depending on the rod and adjustment. - 2 & 3 series rods seem to be what I would need for 3/4 to WOT. Depending on taper and installed length, they may need very little or a lot of power jet opening. - 2-2, 2-3 and 3-3 are closest to good 0-50 times. 2-3 and 3-3 are richer part throttle than the 2-2.
It's amazing how long it took for me to come up with that small amount of summarized info. I've got a lot of times and notes. I think to the point that it made it a headache to look at. That said, I'm glad to have the data as a reference but the summary makes a decision easier. Aside from notes, I can pretty much look at 0-30 and 0-50 and tell response and WOT power. Some setups may get off the line OK for example, but if they are putting in too much fuel WOT an OK 0-30 ends in a slow 0-50.
I think the 2-4 may be worth trying. I don't believe that I'm going to solve the mid-throttle leanness, because everything that's not way too rich for response/performance leans out mid-throttle. I think it would be best to band-aid as little as possible of the throttle range though. For example, it looks like the current 4-4 would need the power jet to work from about 1/4 throttle up. If I can get a rod that functions well across a little more throttle opening, I hypothesize that it may increase my chances of success. The reason that I imagine is that I'd be in slightly more direct control of a lean area rather than carpet-bombing most of the throttle range with additional fuel. I have no clue at all if this is accurate. I'm so deep in this thing already that $41 for one more rod isn't going to make or break my experience.
No testing before the shows though, aside from with the Dell.
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