tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Nov 4, 2023 17:49:50 GMT -5
Well I do understand what you have there. No offense still a basic malossi engine, without more changes and adjustments they don't make crazy power. What's your 0 to 60 right now. Best I've ever done is only 7.0. Ryan is well ahead of that on his also still pretty basic Malossi engine. My best 60fts are 2.1x and most of the time I'm 2.3x. There's time to shave if it could be launched with quick WOT and without a bunch of slip but I'm still a big dude so it's never gonna be a rocket. The scoot and I weigh as much as some liter bikes and their riders. Basic or not, the scoot is like a 4x4 stance with a high center of gravity that puts the center of mass far from the traction point of the tire and I'm sure my suspension is all wrong so it's pretty fun to ride... and it is out there in the world. Most of the crazy fast stuff that I see sits in garages, dyno rooms and occasional track events. Iam on the 4,XX s 0 to 60 But your scoot isn't too heavy and it's pretty naked. Still good.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 4, 2023 19:55:37 GMT -5
Iam on the 4,XX s 0 to 60 But your scoot isn't too heavy and it's pretty naked. Still good. You should come down and ride with me or Ryan and I sometime or come to TN for the drag races. I'd love to see it. I don't mind getting beat. Ryan does it all of the time now. Just fun to see other hopped up scoots... especially 2Ts. I never thought T2 was that heavy till Ryan told me what his MetRuck weighs. Chinese steel frame, larger wheels/tires/brakes and all the LC stuff adds up to about a 250lb scooter IIRC. Honestly, people have said many times how light it must be because it's naked but I don't think I removed more than 5-10lbs of stuff and then added back a steel bracket and housing for the headlight and I've got a steel plate in the rear for the lights, steel storage box where the original gas tank was, 2.5 gallon gas tank, made my own wiring harness from scratch with large gauge wiring and weatherproof connectors plus fuse block and relays, frame support... so it's heavier than stock even before the radiators and wheels and such. Still, I think it would benefit from a stance change more than anything. It's more monster truck than dragster.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Nov 5, 2023 10:12:31 GMT -5
Iam on the 4,XX s 0 to 60 But your scoot isn't too heavy and it's pretty naked. Still good. You should come down and ride with me or Ryan and I sometime or come to TN for the drag races. I'd love to see it. I don't mind getting beat. Ryan does it all of the time now. Just fun to see other hopped up scoots... especially 2Ts. I never thought T2 was that heavy till Ryan told me what his MetRuck weighs. Chinese steel frame, larger wheels/tires/brakes and all the LC stuff adds up to about a 250lb scooter IIRC. Honestly, people have said many times how light it must be because it's naked but I don't think I removed more than 5-10lbs of stuff and then added back a steel bracket and housing for the headlight and I've got a steel plate in the rear for the lights, steel storage box where the original gas tank was, 2.5 gallon gas tank, made my own wiring harness from scratch with large gauge wiring and weatherproof connectors plus fuse block and relays, frame support... so it's heavier than stock even before the radiators and wheels and such. Still, I think it would benefit from a stance change more than anything. It's more monster truck than dragster. I will right now none of my cars have a hitch but soon. That's a easy fix I can race ryan on your scoot! š I from what I know I have one of heaviest scoots because I have everything she comes with plus everything I add and fat tires.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 5, 2023 11:18:01 GMT -5
I from what I know I have one of heaviest scoots because I have everything she comes with plus everything I add and fat tires. You've said you have a 2FAST 100, but you've never told us what your scoot is or shared any pics or anything.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 5, 2023 23:32:43 GMT -5
I tried it out with the Malossi variator and the 2.5mm main jet today. Started out with 1.85mm shimming on the drive boss and moved to 1.6mm because the RPM spread was a bit wide with it getting to 14,000RPM at the end but often starting in the low 13s. The spacing didn't change much, but it was working well enough that I said it'll do.
I did the quickest 0-60 I've recoded to date, which was 6.92. 2nd best 330 and 660' times of 6.19 @ 56.43 and 9.69 @ 68.28. I think if it stayed in the powerband better, I would have had my quickest all around run. Better still if I wasn't a tenth off of the 60ft time from my previous best. Definitely makes me curious what happens if it's ever really dialed in.
I then took the main jet out totally and took it for a ride. It ran fine up to 1/4 throttle and a little past and from around 3/4 to WOT. Anywhere around 1/2 throttle it wanted to die from being so rich. I tried a couple of test runs, but I couldn't take off like normal. I guess I twist somewhere around 1/2 throttle initially, so it would fall on it's face. I had to ease in around 1/4 and then wait till quick WOT was safe so it was slow. 10.46 avg. It did run cool though. I haven't checked video and noted the numbers officially yet, but I think it was somewhere in the low 1200s at 60 for acceleration runs. I held it up to 70-ish and it was still in the 1200s. It felt and sounded a little on the rich side, but not way off.
Something is definitely up. Seems like maybe the wrong needle jet and/or jet needle. I asked Ryan to measure his needle jet if he didn't mind and instead he said he'd send me his entire carb and filter and all of his jets and needles. This way I can bolt his setup on without changing it and see if it runs fine for me. I can also measure whatever I want myself to see if I can figure out what's different and/or swap his filter onto my carb... though a bellmouth and filter changing jetting from a 184 to 250+ doesn't sound very likely to me.
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Post by aeroxbud on Nov 6, 2023 2:24:06 GMT -5
Ryan is a good guy. š
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 6, 2023 11:51:48 GMT -5
I looked at the needles this morning and decided to try the N68E that came in the carb. It measures 2.40mm straight diameter for me so itās about .05mm smaller than whatās in there now and smaller there than all of the Polini needles. I used the leanest clip position.
I couldnāt even get goingā¦ still with no main jet in there.
I put the 2.5mm jet back in. I can get moving enough to sit forward and then go 3/4 to WOT and it will take off then. Still gets hot though. Only 3/4+ and 1/8 or below are usable. Everything else is horribly rich. The idle didnāt hang after I stopped this time. LOL
It seems like it needs a larger needle jet when Iām WOT, yet itās horribly rich part throttle without a jet, with a thinner needle, or even moving anywhere other than the leanest clip position. Maybe itās all needle taper or overall length? Atomizer?
I think Iām just gonna take the carb off and wait for Ryanās at this point. Very interested in seeing what is different. I may take this one back apart and see if I can spot any sort of damage or abnormality in the mean time.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 7, 2023 9:54:38 GMT -5
Ryanās carb setup arrived. He sent all of his tuning bits as well. I recorded speed and mix screw turns so I could put them back if changed. I didnāt open the carb up or touch anything other than the cable adapter to make it a simple fit and of course installing the throttle cable in the slide. It fired up and idled at about 3500 so I turned the idle speed screw out just a touch. No other change. It seemed like it was lean off idle like mine and I expected that it may hang. Sure enough, it did hang when I stopped after riding. I checked EGT at 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 throttle on the way to my rear spot. All settled in the 1100 and 1200F range and worked well enough. I did a few test runs andā¦. It got up near 1400 EGT. š Times were OK. 9.9s in the 1/8. It did stumble once on takeoff. So now I have a few things on my mind. - I should do a leak test. I always leak testā¦ but not this time. I had a lot of family stuff going on and taking up time and sanity. The weather was good but with a cold front coming and the RC1 has never failed a leak test so I skipped it. Doesnāt seem erratic at all, so I donāt really think thatās it, but it should prob be done to rule that out if nothing else. - EGT sensor swap. I should still have my old sensor. It would cut out at times but was on par with past observations as long as it was on. - Go straight to a 250 main jet and see if that totally kills performance or if itās just like mine and runs well. It says 100% chance of rain for a bit very soon. How that goes will probably determine what happens next. Iām leaning toward trying the 250 first and getting that over with. I could do EGT checks pretty quickly as well. Weāll see. I was hoping Iād clamp Ryanās carb on and the stars would align, so that was disappointingā¦ but huge thanks to Ryan for letting me try it. Iāll prob still check a few things just to see while itās here.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 7, 2023 12:18:33 GMT -5
I put the 250 in Ryanās carb. The jet that came out was a 180.
1/2 throttle or anywhere near would fall on its face from richness. Kinda like the main jet out of mine, but not as bad. 1/8 and 1/4 were fine. WOT hiccuped a few times in test runs, but temp was down. Havenāt checked vid yet, but plenty cool.
60fts were no good, but ran low 10s and a 9.9x. So it runs well enough to stay on par with many past results anywhere from 180-250 jetting.
Iām the thinking the EGT is likely reading a little high, but not way off. Could be way off though. Iāll prob try the old probe next if I can find it. Really hoping I didnāt toss it.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 7, 2023 17:52:19 GMT -5
I looked over both carbs side by side and donāt really see any difference. I didnāt want to take Ryanās carb apart more than I had to or push out his needle jet to check it so I cut a brass rod down to 2.58mm. I measured my NJ at 2.60 so I made the rod to fit. 2.60 was actually kinda tight and I didnāt wanna scar a needle jet so I sanded it and it came out 2.58mm and went through easy. It fit both the same so I think 2.6 is normal. I put my carb back on with the 2.5mm main and took the EGT sensor out. Gonna try that next. Seals for the Polini variator arrived from Partzilla. 2 of 3 are deformed from shipping in just a plastic bag mailer. Just emailed them. I also realized that my rear tire is getting near the wear indicators. Thereās still life left, but when I did these and the TMAX last time and fought both I decided that I was gonna build or buy some sort of tire changing rig. That hasnāt happened yet. Iād like to have a manual setup where I could use a duckbill, but usually a center rod goes through a wheel and that is sorta pried against to work the tire. If a rod were made to fit through scoot wheels and bearings, I donāt think it would take that force for long. Maybe Iāll figure something out over the winter.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Nov 8, 2023 1:53:21 GMT -5
I from what I know I have one of heaviest scoots because I have everything she comes with plus everything I add and fat tires. You've said you have a 2FAST 100, but you've never told us what your scoot is or shared any pics or anything. problem solved
on your problem it can be several things but i would check your ignition make sure the timing is correct also the problem can be from fuel foaming in the carb best way to solve that is whit a bigger and wider bowl
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 8, 2023 9:34:08 GMT -5
Nice clean scoot [mention]tysta [/mention] ! Seeing what appears to be a stock wheelbase and pretty much stock stance, now I really wanna see that thing do 4 second 0-60s for myself. Not saying I donāt believe it. I just wanna see it in person. I rode Ryanās Zuma with the RC-1 in it and I think I had a better chance at keeping it under control at launch than mine, but I definitely wasnāt hammering it taking off in the few tries that I had. Iāve watched Jack Cecil do 4.5s IIRC on video with his RC-1 Aerox, but I donāt really get what is so much different from mine. I know Iām not a badass rider, but for comparatively small people to control these things that I canāt hold down is impressive and makes me think Iām missing something (hopefully not just ā½ļøš). I havenāt tested the old EGT sensor on the scoot yet, but Iāve done a little bench testing this morning. I started by removing the connector from the sensor that I was using and mounting both to a piece of aluminum. Theyāre even on the probe end and appear to be even or extremely close on the wire end. This was done as a double check and to show that I did take great care when I replaced the old sensor. BTW, if these look short, thatās because I use an extra connection near the engine to make it easy to remove. Itās been that way for a long time. I checked them 2 ways. I started with resistance and both were 1.8 ohms. Then I used the temp function on my multimeter and both read 55.5F. The thermometer on the wall 6ft away read 57F. If I put the old sensor on and it reads way different then Iām not sure whatās happening unless itās a function of high temp. On the bench they look identical.
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Post by ryan_ott on Nov 8, 2023 10:48:29 GMT -5
tysta If Iām not mistaken I believe you are somewhat local. NJ right? Iām sure we could coordinate some fun between all the scoots.
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Post by Lucass2T on Nov 8, 2023 10:51:01 GMT -5
You could also put them in some boiling water and see what readings you get from that.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 8, 2023 12:15:20 GMT -5
The old sensor might be even worse. It barely wanted to come on. Only came on WOT. Read a max of 1456. Meanwhile, I forgot I had the N68E needle in there so it was ultra rich.
At this point I think itās just my luck that I changed one thing (the new carb) and something else had to screw up at the same time.
I wouldnāt mind testing the whole EGT setup, but I donāt even think it would come on for boiling water. Somewhere in the 200s is as low as it ever starts working. I guess the oven could work. Iād have to take it off of the scoot. I donāt trust my oven that much to be accurate, but I guess if it were ballpark then close enough.
Having ignition timing too far retarded and heating exhaust gases is still a possibility, but I would have thought it would never run as well as it hasā¦ which is as good as it ever has at times.
Still havenāt got around to that leak test, but this really doesnāt seem erratic enough for that to be the cause.
I may do a leak test and see if I can oven test the whole EGT at the same time since I donāt need to ride for either of those.
Itās not like I have to have EGT to tune. Itās something I need to sort anyway though and is quite handy when itās working.
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