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Post by ryan_ott on Nov 8, 2023 12:36:02 GMT -5
Maybe a heat gun could work so you don’t need to pull everything off the scoot. Do you have an ir thermometer you can use for comparison? I believe 260ish is where they start reading at.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Nov 8, 2023 13:12:51 GMT -5
Nice clean scoot [mention]tysta [/mention] ! Seeing what appears to be a stock wheelbase and pretty much stock stance, now I really wanna see that thing do 4 second 0-60s for myself. Not saying I don’t believe it. I just wanna see it in person. I rode Ryan’s Zuma with the RC-1 in it and I think I had a better chance at keeping it under control at launch than mine, but I definitely wasn’t hammering it taking off in the few tries that I had. I’ve watched Jack Cecil do 4.5s IIRC on video with his RC-1 Aerox, but I don’t really get what is so much different from mine. I know I’m not a badass rider, but for comparatively small people to control these things that I can’t hold down is impressive and makes me think I’m missing something (hopefully not just ⚽️🏀). I haven’t tested the old EGT sensor on the scoot yet, but I’ve done a little bench testing this morning. I started by removing the connector from the sensor that I was using and mounting both to a piece of aluminum. They’re even on the probe end and appear to be even or extremely close on the wire end. This was done as a double check and to show that I did take great care when I replaced the old sensor. BTW, if these look short, that’s because I use an extra connection near the engine to make it easy to remove. It’s been that way for a long time. I checked them 2 ways. I started with resistance and both were 1.8 ohms. Then I used the temp function on my multimeter and both read 55.5F. The thermometer on the wall 6ft away read 57F. If I put the old sensor on and it reads way different then I’m not sure what’s happening unless it’s a function of high temp. On the bench they look identical. Thank you its not done yet this photos are from like 5 months ago So I can't do a 4s flat well I don't think is possible without make it lower and stuff. When I say on 4's meaning less than 5s I have quite a few pulls on the 4.7 4.8 it's easy to do, don't need to even try hard for it. She will do a 4.8 with the clutch engagement set at 5000k 😅. She have the power but iam still fighting some small kinks. Remember I have it setup to ride it in town it's very friendly with this setup but still fast. Iam using the stock engine cases so iam very limited in crankcase volume , intake size , transfers area/volume Also the minarelli cvt have more limitations. For example the piaggio cvt have bigger diameter so you can set it up with a way bigger range 😉
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Nov 8, 2023 13:16:38 GMT -5
The old sensor might be even worse. It barely wanted to come on. Only came on WOT. Read a max of 1456. Meanwhile, I forgot I had the N68E needle in there so it was ultra rich. At this point I think it’s just my luck that I changed one thing (the new carb) and something else had to screw up at the same time. I wouldn’t mind testing the whole EGT setup, but I don’t even think it would come on for boiling water. Somewhere in the 200s is as low as it ever starts working. I guess the oven could work. I’d have to take it off of the scoot. I don’t trust my oven that much to be accurate, but I guess if it were ballpark then close enough. Having ignition timing too far retarded and heating exhaust gases is still a possibility, but I would have thought it would never run as well as it has… which is as good as it ever has at times. Still haven’t got around to that leak test, but this really doesn’t seem erratic enough for that to be the cause. I may do a leak test and see if I can oven test the whole EGT at the same time since I don’t need to ride for either of those. It’s not like I have to have EGT to tune. It’s something I need to sort anyway though and is quite handy when it’s working. Like I said before you should double check that ignition just to be sure it's not to retard or too advanced. Also you made a new flange for your exhaust right. 🤔 Can just try your old exhaust and check the Temps If the Temps are not that high you need to revisit your exhaust flange something in there can be causing something odd with the flow.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Nov 8, 2023 13:17:10 GMT -5
tysta If I’m not mistaken I believe you are somewhat local. NJ right? I’m sure we could coordinate some fun between all the scoots. Yes iam very close to Newark nj area
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 8, 2023 13:33:30 GMT -5
Like I said before you should double check that ignition just to be sure it's not to retard or too advanced. Also you made a new flange for your exhaust right. 🤔 Can just try your old exhaust and check the Temps If the Temps are not that high you need to revisit your exhaust flange something in there can be causing something odd with the flow. The flange was for the S6 pipe. It's back to the MHR exhaust now. So I can't do a 4s flat well I don't think is possible without make it lower and stuff. When I say on 4's meaning less than 5s I have quite a few pulls on the 4.7 4.8 it's easy to do, don't need to even try hard for it. She will do a 4.8 with the clutch engagement set at 5000k 😅. She have the power but iam still fighting some small kinks. Remember I have it setup to ride it in town it's very friendly with this setup but still fast. What range are your 60ft times in? I'm curious if it hits hard right off or you've just got enough power that it pulls like crazy once it's moving.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Nov 8, 2023 14:01:30 GMT -5
Like I said before you should double check that ignition just to be sure it's not to retard or too advanced. Also you made a new flange for your exhaust right. 🤔 Can just try your old exhaust and check the Temps If the Temps are not that high you need to revisit your exhaust flange something in there can be causing something odd with the flow. The flange was for the S6 pipe. It's back to the MHR exhaust now. So I can't do a 4s flat well I don't think is possible without make it lower and stuff. When I say on 4's meaning less than 5s I have quite a few pulls on the 4.7 4.8 it's easy to do, don't need to even try hard for it. She will do a 4.8 with the clutch engagement set at 5000k 😅. She have the power but iam still fighting some small kinks. Remember I have it setup to ride it in town it's very friendly with this setup but still fast. What range are your 60ft times in? I'm curious if it hits hard right off or you've just got enough power that it pulls like crazy once it's moving. Less than 2s lot of times rear tire skips 😅 It's like 1.96s 1.95s youtu.be/FDmqvb-Rv1A?si=DvboYLMVzNx3IM6c
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 8, 2023 19:05:20 GMT -5
90GTVert Are you using thermocouple wire to extend and splice? and is the polarity of the connections correct?
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 8, 2023 19:12:01 GMT -5
90GTVert Are you using thermocouple wire to extend and splice? and is the polarity of the connections correct? The sender was long. I cut it and added K type connectors to act as a quick disconnect. That was done long ago. With the new sensor, I just cut it to the same length as the sensor section for the old one. Polarity should be the same as it was. I just took a pic to make sure I had a reference when I switched the connector to the new one. EDIT : I also just looked it up to double check. Yellow +, Red -.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 11, 2023 14:18:33 GMT -5
I had to make a new adapter for the big carb to do a leak test. I put a groove in it like the carb. May have to mod some other adapters because it does fit better that way. I pumped it up to 6.5psi 4 hours ago and it’s still right on the mark. So I’m prob down to either false EGT readings or ignition.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 12, 2023 13:36:22 GMT -5
I found a couple of sites saying that you can test EGT sensors for accuracy by putting them in flames. This one says a "BBQ gas lighter" should heat the probe to 400-500C (752-932F) within a minute. www.autobox.com.au/blog/how-to-test-an-exhaust-temperature-gauge-aka-pyro/I put the probe in a dial indicator base to hold it wherever I wanted it. Of course my long nose lighter ran out of butane quickly. I switched to a standard disposable lighter. That could see temps from 800s to over 1200F, depending where the probe was in the flame. That's kinda what I figured would happen. I tried it in both my scoot's EGT and the multimeter's K-type connector. Both seemed pretty similar. I did not cool and then time 1 minute to see if that made it 400-500C because it seemed to say that it would reach that quickly more than saying to time it by my perception. This site says that holding the tip in the hottest part of a paraffin based candle should show 930F/500C. support.michiganavionics.com/portal/en/kb/articles/is-my-egt-probe-reading-correctlyThat was closer, but I was actually trying to keep it in the cooler section. I don't remember the exact temps now, but they were in the ballpark... in the wrong part of the flame. I'd have to look at the video to report exactly. At that point, I assumed the EGT was close enough... or that my test methods still suck... even though that first site says testing an EGT is easy. LOL Depends exactly how accurately you wish to test it I think. BTW, I like Lucass' idea to put the probe in boiling water... but boiling water might as well be room temperature compared to WOT EGTs. Same thought for even the oven at 400-500F. Using my IR thermometer then would make me wonder if it was accurate... sorta like I don't trust my oven's thermometer all that much either. I moved on to ignition. I set a dial indicator up and it looks like the piston is 0.35mm BTDC when the marks align on the stator and rotor. That's right where I set them initially. So at least the physical ignition timing is OK. I've never actually checked the timing on the RC-1. I spent a bunch of time making a ring to mount on the Minarelli clone specifically for that job, but I don't have anything like that for the RC-1. I'll have to get the degree wheel out and do something much less intricate than what I had.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 14, 2023 21:52:36 GMT -5
I want to check ignition timing… so you know I always take the easiest path. I realized I had no piston stop. I had 2 at one point. 🤷♂️ Wound up making one from a spark plug. Who wants to just print out a degree wheel/protractor and cut it to fit around the rotor? Even though it’s not something I do a lot, I like having a bolt-on setup. I had a chunk of 1/4” thick ABS plastic and decided to use that instead of steel like the one I made for Minarellis. I cut out a square around 5”, center drilled it, cut the corners off so it fit the lathe and cut the OD then ID to make a ring. I had to cut one 1/4 off of the ring to clear the coolant hose. I used the ignition cover for the RC-1 to make a template and mark the bolt locations and elongated them all for adjustability. I made 8.4mm aluminum spacers to go behind it. I printed a 360 degeee protractor and glued it to the ring to help me mark it with a box cutter and scriber. I left off trying to use a paint marker to accent the timing marks. The V groove that I filed in should be TDC.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 15, 2023 8:17:12 GMT -5
Not exactly a work of art, but it should get the job done.
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Post by Lucass2T on Nov 15, 2023 10:19:21 GMT -5
If it works, it ain't stupid!
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 15, 2023 19:48:55 GMT -5
I did timing checks today. Quick clip below. I had to change back to the JJL needle (needed to go back to that or JJK anyway) to get it to rev because it's so rich with the N68E in spots. The light cuts out somewhere over 12,000RPM. Not sure why it worked higher on the TPR with MVT. Whatever the case may be, it looks like it's within a degree of what I recorded on the TPR across the curve. Within 1 degree with 2 homemade timing indicators and the same 0.35mm BTDC with 2 different conrod lengths probably means it's basically right on where it should be.
So it's not leaking and the timing looks good. Old and new EGT sensors seems to test the same and hooking the sensor to my multimeter seems to give about the same results. I do wish the meter read higher than 1000F so I could road test and see what it said WOT.
This two-stroke tuning stuff is so easy.
Another issue... The spark plug cap came off around 12,000RPM a couple of times. Didn't really click on. Replaced the cap and plug. Good to go... BUT, I need more caps. I have used NGK LB05EP for years on scoots. They are now discontinued. I tried looking at other NGK options that may work and it looks like NGK isn't making any of them.
There are knockoffs on amazon. Multiple reviews say the resistance is all over the place. Anywhere from dead short to 11kΩ. Even worse than that perhaps is that they don't seem trustworthy to hold up. Poorly made according to reviews.
Anyone else use these caps and find a quality replacement? 14mm plug, terminal nut, screw onto wire, preferably waterproof (basically just rubber boots.) and 5kΩ -- though I may be willing to try a different resistance if I can find something made by a trusted brand or tested on high rev stuff. There's so much vibration with these things that I have to change them regularly and I don't see something poorly made holding up long and would likely cause a lot of headaches.
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 15, 2023 21:20:02 GMT -5
.........................Another issue... The spark plug cap came off around 12,000RPM a couple of times. Didn't really click on. Replaced the cap and plug. Good to go... BUT, I need more caps. I have used NGK LB05EP for years on scoots. They are now discontinued. I tried looking at other NGK options that may work and it looks like NGK isn't making any of them. There are knockoffs on amazon. Multiple reviews say the resistance is all over the place. Anywhere from dead short to 11kΩ. Even worse than that perhaps is that they don't seem trustworthy to hold up. Poorly made according to reviews. Anyone else use these caps and find a quality replacement? 14mm plug, terminal nut, screw onto wire, preferably waterproof (basically just rubber boots.) and 5kΩ -- though I may be willing to try a different resistance if I can find something made by a trusted brand or tested on high rev stuff. There's so much vibration with these things that I have to change them regularly and I don't see something poorly made holding up long and would likely cause a lot of headaches. I also could not find the NGK stuff anywhere, now I know why. I ordered this Malossi plug and wire (5519221) from Scooterpartsco.com I think they have the cheapest prices on Malossi I have seen anywhere and they are in my state so shipping is quick. It seems to be working fine for me and not constantly twisting, which is what destroys them IMO. It's description reads 5 ohm but I think they meant 5K ohm? It was $20 plus shipping, they have others without the wire. EDIT: I just noticed it says 5K right on the plug cap.
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