2001 Honda Elite 50 (wife's scoot)

[gsx600racer]

Well I figured I would start a build thread for the wife's scooter. I picked it up a couple years ago from my neighbor. When he got it, it didn't run and I was asked to get it running. It had been sitting for a bit and needed a thorough cleaning. It needed a new e-starter and your typical tune up. Once running I was surprised it only did 20-25 mph. After some research, I learned this model was heavily restricted. So after drilling out the washer in the exhaust, removing the rear restrictor plate on the variator, opening up the air box, re-jetting the carb, and tie-wrapping the oil pump wide open seeing there is no splitter cable to the pump(your typical derestriction routine for this model) . This basically woke the scooter up and got me to 35 mph. I was bit by the 2 stroke bug, so at that point I bought it from my neighbor.

Since I had it I replaced the drive belt, repainted the rims and put new tires on it, swapped the stock variator with a DDX with SEF ramp plate, 1500 clutch and contra springs. This got me 40-42 mph. Installed a digital rpm/temp gauge(link below). The wife's biggest complaint is that she couldn't keep up when we went for rides so this brings me to now.

Awhile back I picked up a few upgrade goodies from ryan_ott, ZX pulley kit, 9:1 gear set, and a few other parts. The ZX pulley(rear) is larger in diameter than stock. Some CVT case modifications are required as well as a longer belt. This in conjunction with the larger gears will give you back some of your take off performance lost from the gear swap. Also some shimming of the variator will need to be done. 

Recently I got the 46mm Airsal aluminum kit and oil pump block off plug. I have to admit, the Airsal kit is quality stuff. Not a sharp edge or burr on the cylinder or piston. The ports were also lightly chamfered. I did go in and clean up the exhaust port, boot & transfer ports with the dremel to make things a bit smoother. I planned on installing the block off plug anyways seeing the check valve in the oil pump was shot and was always dumping oil in the engine if it sat for long periods so it was a smoker for the first 15-20 mins of every ride.  

For intake, carb & exhaust, I'm not sure what direction I want to go with. I really would like to stick with stock air box, but its was restrictive @ 50cc. Like to keep carb tuning simple as possible seeing this is my first aluminum kitted engine/build.

A couple other links related to this scooter.

49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/16979/update-stator-suggestions-honda-elite
49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/14941/trail-tech-alternatives-updated-review?page=3

Pics and more updates coming soon.

[gsx600racer]

We Iv been puttering away on the project. Thinking it would just be a tear down and slap back together is not the case.

I figured I share a few pics of cyl and piston seeing I was impressed with the quality of the kit.







I went ahead and cleaned up and mild polished the exhaust, transfers, and boost ports. Nothing fancy



I was pleased and surprised when I pulled the intake off, I was going open the windows some but it seems stock they are quite large to begin with. so I just ended up cleaning up the castings marks and left the window openings alone.



As for cylinder to case matching, I was also surprised how close they matched, I only lighty opened up/tapered the boost port to match the cyl.



I didn't care for the base gasket that came with the kit and ended up making my own that was a better fit and match. Its still the same thickness as the one that was supplied with the kit.

I was a bit disappointed when I could see the cylinder skirts thru the intake window. In the past I would of cut it back for it all to blend in, but I am leaving it in this case. My concerns are damaging the Nikasil plating when cutting and grinding. Id rather be safe than sorry.



Here is piston @ TDC & BDC



I did break out the degree wheel and got some #'s

Exhaust:
Open 93°
Closed 265°
Duration 172°

Transfer/Boost:
Open 117°
Closed 242°
Duration 125°

Gasket thickness:
Head .018"
Base .020"

Squish will be in another thread. Only because I think it will be an informative thread vs it being lost in this one.

[oldgeek]

Great pictures! I have been enjoying the same kit on my naked Kymco scoot. What a deal they are during Treatland's sale. I am a bit surprised at the durations you found, I thought they would be just a bit higher judging from the BDC picture, and my seat of the pants dyno experience.

I dont know for sure, but I would think that trimming the cylinder skirt in the window area would be ok. Even if you chip the nikasil I would think it would not be a problem in that area?

Top speed is still around 43mph at 8000 RPM. Acceleration is pretty good. Temps hover around 275°F and up to 315°F for extended WOT.

[gsx600racer]

Feb 26, 2017 22:11:07 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

Great pictures! I have been enjoying the same kit on my naked Kymco scoot. What a deal they are during Treatland's sale. I am a bit surprised at the durations you found, I thought they would be just a bit higher judging from the BDC picture, and my seat of the pants dyno experience.

I dont know for sure, but I would think that trimming the cylinder skirt in the window area would be ok. Even if you chip the nikasil I would think it would not be a problem in that area?

Top speed is still around 43mph at 8000 RPM. Acceleration is pretty good. Temps hover around 275°F and up to 315°F for extended WOT.

Thanks.

I don't plan on raising or lowering the cylinder seeing that the outer deck of the piston is flush with the top of the cylinder(within .0005)

I am hoping others chime in in regards to trimming the cylinder skirt to see what others think. I might run it un touched till broke-in then may go back and mod it to see if there is any performance difference.

Just on the fence with the cylinder head, either modding the stock or using the Malossi 70cc.

[Senna1Rossi]

Cool. and we need an overall pic of the scoot now, and while you're upgrading! heh

[gsx600racer]

Well I installed the cylinder un-modified. The compression was 190 psi using the stock head and supplied gaskets.

Going to try the Malossi 70cc head and see if I get lower #'s. Would really like to be around 160 psi tops.

[oldgeek]

Couple of head gaskets would lower the compression and loosen up that tight spot you have.

[drc174]

Feb 28, 2017 18:08:54 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

Couple of head gaskets would lower the compression and loosen up that tight spot you have.

I would pop a thicker base gasket, will get you some higher port times

[gsx600racer]

Feb 28, 2017 20:28:15 GMT -5 drc174 said:

Feb 28, 2017 18:08:54 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

Couple of head gaskets would lower the compression and loosen up that tight spot you have.

I would pop a thicker base gasket, will get you some higher port times

Funny you mentioned that, I just read this the other night.

www.motorcyclephilippines.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-30507.html

Iv thought about it, but the piston is already below the ports @ BDC, although the top of the piston is flush with the top of the cylinder @ TDC.

[gsx600racer]

Feb 28, 2017 18:08:54 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

Couple of head gaskets would lower the compression and loosen up that tight spot you have.

I did some experimenting tonight. 

Stock head(50cc)

1 head gasket(.018"), 190 psi.

+ 2nd head gasket(.019") 160 psi.

Malossi head(72cc)

Just with o-ring gasket, 210 psi.

1st head gasket(.019") 180 psi

+ 2nd head gasket(.018") 145 psi.

I went with the stock head & 2 gaskets. I'm sure once the engine fires up the compression will come down some. Everything is well lubed so i'm sure its sealing well and giving higher psi #'s

[gsx600racer]

Iv made some progress tonight. Its all bolted together. I had one snag with the cylinder and intake interfering with each other so I trimmed them both so the would play nice with each other. Leak down tested @10 psi for an hour with no leaks(a first for me) I actually thought the needle on the gauge was stuck because i'v always had a leak the first time around. lol

I didn't trim the bottom cylinder to match the intake window. I want to see if this effect performance. I can always remove it later and compare if there is any difference.

I decided to use the stock carb and starting with a 100 main jet. I swap the reed with a Malossi one that came with another kit. The air box has enough opened up to accommodate the larger cylinder. I don't want this scooter to be a tuning nightmare.

All that's left is the gear swap. I have a set 16*42 = 9.1 to 1 which I am thinking might be too tall for this setup. I was thinking of getting a set of 15*42 = 9.8 to 1 which is a little less. Decisions decisions.

Lastly I think I am going to start with the ZX50 stock exhaust or try the YMS which is a littler larger.

[gsx600racer]

Feb 27, 2017 16:24:28 GMT -5 Senna1Rossi said:

Cool. and we need an overall pic of the scoot now, and while you're upgrading! heh

Its just bone stock in looks. 

[ryan_ott]

I think you will be fine with 9:1. It won't be as wheelie prone but the small tire size will allow those gears to be pulled just fine. I think you need an arrow on there.

[gsx600racer]

Well Iv had a chance to work out the temp sensor(PT100)issues(accuracy) I was having. I wanted to make sure my temps were accurate. My test was in comparsion with a Trail Tech gauge at ambient temp and boiling water. I was able get the accuracy within a couple degrees of each other. Before the temps were 20+ degrees off. I'm putting together a PT100 sensor build up thread shortly.

Anyways Iv been able to put a few hours on this build and a couple tanks of fuel. So far I am happy with the results. Im still running the stock gears so it like to wheelie if you try hard enough(well if I do) LOL.

I using the stock exhaust from one of my Kymco ZX50's for now. I might consider trying the V8 pipe when I get a few more miles on it. I'm surprised that the running temps are on the low side which make me wonder how accurate the temps are over 212+ degrees. I might run the Trail Tech with other gauge to compare. Not keen of the idea of having two senors under the plug.

I did take it for a wide open blast just to see what its got. I was surprised with the results, I need to re-run it, hopefully with cam and smartphone mounts.(need to build first)

With stock carb & airbox, 105m jet, ZX trans mod and belt(thanks to ryan_ott ), stock ZX50 exhaust, and stock gearing. this is what I got.



I was expecting mid to high 40's not to break into the 50's. It does seem to hit a wall at 8200 rpm's, on the flats or down hill(well maybe a few extra R's down hill but its not a big noticeable difference). It pulls nice from takeoff to 3/4 of its top speed.

The only thing that has me concerned is riding(crusing)at about 2/3 throttle and backing off a tiny bit, it sounds as if you take off the air box thru the exhaust. I want to guess its lean and the sound I am hearing is detonation. Going to raise the needle and upjet one size. It also could just be the exhaust, I remember hearing this same sound when the exhaust was on the Kmyco.

Vids to come soon, well there are a couple here(low speed)if you have checked out Miss ScooterPup thread.

[oldgeek]

Thats pretty darn good for a cylinder that's just under 65cc! With the same kit on my naked Kymco I have only seen 48 in perfect flat conditions but usually it will stay around 43 all day long.

As you know from my thread I had a hell of a time getting a good tune on this kit. I took your recommendations and put the V8 pipe on, and a 19mm PHBG but I still had a really hard time getting the tune right. It is my first aluminium kit and I would have certainly destroyed it without a temp gauge to help me. As a matter of fact the tune is off a bit again due to the hot weather arriving, it seems to be slightly lean in a spot, I would have thought it would have gotten richer if anything. Cylinder temps are around 270 WOT with the occasional jump to 300 - 310 when I come off of WOT and I forget to pulse the throttle a bit to cool it off. It hangs between 225 - 260 in heavy stop and go traffic.

I may have to try a stock Kymco exhaust since you are having great results with yours. If you do try your V8 pipe, I ended up needing one of the S6 flat exhaust gaskets to finally get a leak free seal. The flange on the airsal is milled really big for a donut style gasket, but the donut style gasket just would not seal with the V8 pipe I have.