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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jun 24, 2018 10:18:12 GMT -5
You will need some tools... stator puller, seal remover & installer, plastic razor blades to peel off old gasket, and ??? From what I understand, the crankshaft 'flywheel' diameter is not large enough to require case machine work. Ditto for the diameter of the cylinder, but you should check with the vendor. The rockers/cam followers are specific to the length of the valve stem. The cylinder heads are the same, but the cam and rocker assembly are not. You'll need a full engine gasket set also. Be sure to check that the crankshaft has not gotten warped in shipping. Set it in blocks on its bearings, and spin, watch both ends of the crankshaft for wobble. They should NOT wobble, and should run true. tom
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Post by scootnewb on Jun 24, 2018 10:51:14 GMT -5
Thanks Cool, I was going to order a complete rocker assembly instead of replacing the rocker arms. Something like this. www.amazon.com/Wingsmoto-Rocker-Assembly-Camshaft-Scooter/dp/B0150VZ5OE/The cam is the same though right? I'm wondering if I can pull this off. If you see me talking about 150cc mounts again don't think you've wasted time and energy responding. I'm still going back and forth trying to figure out what I'm capable of, which route will get me what I want, and what it will cost to pay someone if I get in over my head.
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jun 26, 2018 12:48:16 GMT -5
The cylinder heads are the same.... To a point. The length of the valve guides differs between 64 & 69mm valve heads. I think the rocker arm shaft assembly - not the rocker arms - is the same in both sizes. I am not an expert, so take that with a grain of salt. My understanding is there is no special part number for either head. The rocker arms/cam followers/u-pick are specific to the valves, as they must accommodate the cam lobes, and the installed, at-rest, seated height of the valve stem measured from the valve seat. It will be higher for the 69mm as the stem extends above the gasket surface of the head when seated. The follower must reach to that height while at the same time having its other end on the cam lobe. Has to be different. tom
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Post by cristian on Aug 30, 2018 12:19:38 GMT -5
Hey, I'm thinking to swap the stock engine (which has an 80cc kit on it) with a 125cc.
Is there anything else I should change? Like transmiission? I think the engine comes with it's own carb. Thanks, Cristian.
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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 23, 2018 12:37:12 GMT -5
Hey, I'm thinking to swap the stock engine (which has an 80cc kit on it) with a 125cc. Is there anything else I should change? Like transmiission? I think the engine comes with it's own carb. Thanks, Cristian. I know this is a late reply but I am also interested in engine swap because I like wrenching and exploring possibilities and of course more power. I just saw a large 150cc scoot that was a few years old but barely used looked brand new for $450 on Facebook marketplace in Massachusetts. I am tempted to buy it and slap a 49cc sticker on it and also remove the windshield and maybe the doubles seat to make it look smaller. It seems like buying a 150 would be soooo much easier and the right one would look identical from the outside to a 49cc... Anyways back to my response to your old question...The new engine, if complete, has a built in transmission although you should look into the axle size on the new engine that your rear wheel has to fit onto if the engine doesn't come with a wheel on it. You may need an adapter to get your current wheel on in some cases or it might be easier to get a new rim that fits the new engine shaft plug-n-play. Other things you need for an engine swap, other than the engine mounts, properly sized carb if it doesnt come with one, and checking the rear axle and wheel compatibility---other things are the electrical system. I have heard the wiring is very similar as far as it is the same design from the 50cc to 150cc.(as a side note you should make sure if the 2 setups you are splicing together are meant to run on an ac system or full dc system)..but I believe the connectors are different so you might want to buy a new wire harness to fir the new engine as they are very cheap new as low as around $30 I believe, or I have seen people simply cutt of their old connectors of they dont fit and either buy new connectors to fit where they cut the old ones off or you could just connect the bare wires together if you know what youre doing, then put a wire cap and electrical tape over. Most, if not all, 150cc GY6 I have seen have 2 shocks. one shock mounted to the rear of the engine and I believe the other rear shock is mounted to a bracket on the other side, although I am not sure if that bracket fits on the engine case or onto the axle, or if it rests between the case and wheel or the wheel and axle nut or bracket...
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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 23, 2018 12:59:50 GMT -5
I have been looking for an easy mounting kit to put a 150cc onto a 50cc frame for a few reasons and an idea, maybe not a great one, but an idea arose that was followed by questions for experienced members such as Dexameth or Matt from Partsforscooters.com or maybe the moderator Brent a.k.a. 90GTVERT. My idea is that what is actually needed to mount a gy6 150cc LOOKS to be pretty darn simple----it LOOKS like one would just need some kind of pipe of the right length (to match up to the mount holes on top of the 150cc motor) then put bushings in said pipe just like on a motor mount and put a axle thru that, then basically the aformentioned pipe could feasibly be part of a squareish frame or squared U shape frame/mount that connects to the 50cc frame at the other end. where it connects to the 50cc frame I was thinking it would be easy if there were a round pipe cross member here in the right spot like on the Ruckus so that a mount could clamp onto it ot run an axle thru it etc...then I thought well how about I clamp onto the 50cc frame a cross member that runs from side to side of the scoot that would clamp onto the existing 50cc frame that runs on either side of the scoot from front to back. I googled " DUAL PIPE CLAMPS " and " RIGHT ANGLE DUAL PIPE CLAMPS" ....so I am just spitballing ideas here....AND I def need to strip down my scoot & or look at pics of naked 50cc scoot frames to see if my idea would work and how it would work...BUT it seems to me like I MIGHT be onto something...or maybe just obsessed with scoots and taking something reliable and a lil slow and making more power like Tim Allen on TOOL TIME lol ... if you look at like the composi moto (or however you spell their name) Ruckus 150cc swap kits they seem to use at least one 2 piece clamp that goues around a round cross member that is already a part of the Ruckus frame. Anyho...Sorry my post is rambling, I am a Rambling Rolling Scooting Man, and I would love to know what you guys think... PLEASE??! Are my ideas of sturdy pipe clamps an ok start at positioning a cross member to get a simple squareish engine hanger for the 150cc engine onto the 49cc frame? or does my idea suck? do any of the thick single or dual or right angle pipe clamps seem thick enough and would they stay tight enough ?? would using a couple mounts like or similar to maybe with bigger holes this knmparts.com/collections/chinese-engine-parts/products/chain-adjuster-hanger-150-kandi-type-1 with a sleeve and axle then screwed via the threaded rod on it into a well poistioned cross member via the aformentioned clamps work? or are 2 of the mounts on the above link with an axle not enough to hold a 150cc gy6? (of course assuming I would also attach the motor via 1-2 shocks also!!) I look forward to replies! Don't worry, keep up on maintainence, carry a repair kit with spare parts, Be Happy & Keep On Scootin! Warmest Regards, Sir Scoots-A-Lot
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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 23, 2018 16:16:01 GMT -5
I was bored, so I went to take my 50cc 4T around the block, made sure carb is setup properly for fall weather that snuck in fast here in CT. I looked under the hood of my scoot, or under the seat as it were, to see if there is an easy way to mount a 150 cc engine. I think the below picture where I circled the frame cross member directly towards the front of the scoot from my gas tank shows that cross member would indeed be a fairly easy spot to hang the engine from WITHOUT welding neccesarily. All it takes is some imagination, some determination and not being afraid to experiment and problem solve a little. Frankly, the basics of hanging the engine doesnt look hard at all. I could find any old engine hanger that would approximately fit and either put dual pipe clamps on the cross beam I circled in the below pic to attach the hanger to the frame then attach the other side of the hanger to the engine and Bam basic hanger done. If I add a basic drill to the equation it gets even easier with more possibilities of different and custom hangers I could use as I could then drill into the ends of the cross member where it meets with the rest of my frame, fit bushings and or a sleeve into it, then put an axle bolt thru that cross member that would attach to the frame side of a squareish engine hanger. or I could drill into other parts of the cross member and put a couple short nuts and bolts thru it to put on whatever hardware can be bolted on to help hang an engine. Alls ya need to know is how an engine hanger is supposed to work on scoots, like how they usually do it but also other ways it could work like if the engine was much more solidly affixed to the frame by the hanger so it doesn't move a lot but just use some type of bushings so it would give a little and not crack the mounting hardware. With a drill I could also pick up severeal feet of the appropriate thickness steel pipe-round or square-- and drill thru that to make my own custom engine hanger that would swivel however I wanted it to. I feel like the hardest part might be figuring out exactly what height to have the engine sit at for ground clearance, carb/intake/airbox clearance, center stand clearance and functionality at whatever height I hang this setup, rear shock mount--although that doesn't sound terribly difficult. Especially with the internet guys if you have just a drill, wrenches and some imagination and time to kill this LONG WINTER as well as $225 for the cheapest new 150cc GY6 I could find, maybe $30-50 for a wire harness or some determination and understanding splicing existing wiring and electrical tape, money for the hardware which I would guess to be under $100 for as many steel pipes and washers, axles nuts and bolts plus a cheap shock then I'm sure you all are capable of coming up with a plan to make this engine swap happen. Below is the pic with the cross member I kept mentioning as the point from which to attach an engine hanger and possibly a shock mount as well. If you can't figure it out but are really adamant on making a swap happen and are stuck in CT for any reason I'm quite confident I could help make it happen without welding, although I do have a machine and limited amatuer experience welding. The only obstacle that really jumps out at me is the total amount of work that would go into a project like this. the mount seems almost like nothing compared to all the wiring, shock mount, possibly having to change the seating. It seems to me like many on here want something put together fast so they can upgrade an existing primary mode of transport that isn't wuite fast enough. and I think doing a custom swap and custom work on scooters for whatever reason to fix up or improve a ride is awesome. BUT I feel like a swap like this would best be done slowly on a scooter you wouldn't miss for awhile if it was sidelined waiting for an unforseen parts order. Otherwise I suggest shelling out serious money for a swap kit like I have seen for the Ruckus, although i don't know would the Ruckus 150cc swap engine mount work on a non-Ruckus-style-frame, regular 50cc Chinese scooter? on that last point I don't know
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Post by cristian on Sept 28, 2018 11:23:29 GMT -5
Where could I find to buy a gy6 125cc engine? I found some new engines on alibaba. This is a chinese version of amazon and I don't know if it's trustworthy.
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Post by scootnewb on Sept 29, 2018 18:40:16 GMT -5
@ Sir Scoots-A-Lot, In your top down photo, the front seat mount on the left looks bent down. Mine does that too. I bend it back and it bends back down. I thought about having someone add some weld to it to keep it up but I just about out of patience with this thing. Not the seat mount but the scoot in general.
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Post by lilpinny on Sept 29, 2018 23:25:45 GMT -5
The ruck gy6 swap has been done so many times it’s perfected, at least as far as mounts go. They are mostly CNC’d now. They are specific to the ruck, but you need to hang it from a cross member and make a three point connection through the bushings. The remember the shock placement.
Harnesses are $250 and I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in anything. In a 150 swap you replace everything. New fuel pump, new cdi, etc. everything.
I get all my new GY6’s from drowsports
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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 30, 2018 19:26:35 GMT -5
@ Sir Scoots-A-Lot, In your top down photo, the front seat mount on the left looks bent down. Mine does that too. I bend it back and it bends back down. I thought about having someone add some weld to it to keep it up but I just about out of patience with this thing. Not the seat mount but the scoot in general. My scoot looks similar to that pic where I circled the frame it would be easy to get an engine hanger on there and run an axle type bolt thru the engine mounts on a 150cc then just have to figure out the shock connection b ecause you need at least one shock I believe to make it work. It would seriously be easy just google dual pipe clamps they have chunky thick dual clamps of similar thickness to the Honda Ruckus 50cc to 150cc conversion mount kits. use 2 dual pipe clamp on the frame where I circled above, one on the left one on the right, then run a 1/4" thick steel pipe thru the other part of the 2 dual clamps so the pipe runs parallel to the frame cross member I circled above and is now clamped onto it, you could find elbow joints to connect perpendicular pipes to the one just clampedon then two more elbow joints and another pipe at the bottom so now you would have clamped a square looking pipe framework onto your existing frame just using clamps, steel pipes, elbow joints and plumbers glue, then you just get a drill with a drill bit to drill thru the steel pipe and a grinder attachment for said drill or angle grinder to make cuts to the bottom pipe so you can cut and drill it to fit an axle bolt thru the pipe framework and thru the engine mounts and voila! a rigged 150cc engine is now hanging off the cross member I circled above that is probably about at the back of your 50cc seat. The only thing left is the shock, and you may be able to use the one existing 50cc shock mount on the frame, not sure, of you order a different length shock. Also not sure if I explained how to make the no-weld custom engine mount but it seems fairly eaasy to me, maybe it wouldnt work so easy and I'm wrng, but maybe it would. I would like to experiment with that and welding custom mounts someday That's actually a stock photo I used.... My scoot I bought very used and is actually as far as I can tell a 2 stroke frame! it has Yamati Eurostrada Rx-8 plastics and a serial number under the seat frame from 2006...as far as i know they used the 140qmb 2 stroke engine on this originally and I think it was a top mount design although not like a 150cc 4t design where the motor mount is a little towards the middle of the assembly, I THINK the 140qmb has mounts on top but all the way to the front similar to the 139qmb 4 stroke is all the way to the front on the bottom....but the PO of my scooter put a 2011 or 2013 Tao Tao engine on this frame with the Tao Tao engine mount and the valve cover with the EGR pipe actualy hits the frame when I let it off the center stand so the previous owner wrapped a lil rubber on the frame there so the engine wouldnt get hurt. I wanted to see if I can order a new 140qmb engine that might fit but I couldn't find that engine for sale online anywhere I know where to look. scootnweb my advice to you is since you want more speed maybe now is a good time of year up north here to pick up a cheap 50cc 2 stroke, put a bbk on it and it will give a stock 150cc 4t a real run for it's money. I think I saw a 50cc 2t in CT supposedly in good working order and looked good, not banged up for a couple hundred. I think I saw one for $150 and another for like $300 and another for $400. But you should be able to haggle a good used one for around $200 or less with winter coming. I also saw a 2009 large scoot, can't remember if it was only 150cc 4 stroke but I think it was bigger like 250cc or even listed as a 300 maybe with a 260cc ...not sure but it was almost a decade old but less than a couple hundred miles on it because it had been imported to be sold in a small shop with other scoots, was never sold, then shop closed, owner's friend got it and put it on Facebook marketplace for a couple hundred bucks in Springfield Massachusettes. I often see cheap scoots in parts of Mass also I think because in Mass aren't you supposed to get plates on any scooter? so m y thinking is many people value scoots less because of the extra hassle needed to register them whereas in CT where I live at least the scooter laws are ok and people here often run 150's with no plates and can legally run 50cc's no plates
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Post by Sir Scoots-A-Lot on Sept 30, 2018 19:30:42 GMT -5
The ruck gy6 swap has been done so many times it’s perfected, at least as far as mounts go. They are mostly CNC’d now. They are specific to the ruck, but you need to hang it from a cross member and make a three point connection through the bushings. The remember the shock placement. Harnesses are $250 and I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in anything. In a 150 swap you replace everything. New fuel pump, new cdi, etc. everything. I get all my new GY6’s from drowsports I'm pretty sure they have 150cc GY6 harnesses way way cheaper like 10x cheaper on Ebay. Where you shop makes a huge difference on many of these parts and in some cases the cheap parts may not be as rugged but work just as well. that being said I have seen amny cheap and expensive BBK kits for example or CDI of different prices that work exactly the same...BUT I have not seen a very cheap engine swap kit yet. the cheapest I have seen is the weld on tabs which aren't even much steel but still expensive near $100 or amybe $150 for something that still needs to be welded on and like $300 or more for the Ruck CNC kits $30.97 complete wire harness with stator starter solenoid rectifier/regulator etc on Ebay : www.ebay.com/itm/Fits-GY6-150cc-ATV-Scooter-Electric-CDI-Coil-Solenoid-Harness-Wiring-Refit-SGU/273454829700?epid=13023602408&hash=item3fab2d9084:g:q5oAAOSwNqFbfmvN&vxp=mtrYou also only NEED a fuel pump if you aren't doing the gravity fed thing that works OK on most scoots 50-150cc where the gas tank is situated above the carb. of course the ruck?maddog/all the other Ruck clones out now needs a pump with the fuel tank under yer feet. even the stock pump on the ruck has been known to have problems after turning and such and needs to be replaced some say with the stock get engine and many or most replace the stock ruck pump when doing the 150cc gy6 swap. On a side note I think it is freakin hilarious how soooo many people are like saying: Chinese engines aren't reliable. Soooo many Ruckus owners eager to swap to the Chinese engine Disagree. Also Honda has I believe 3 huge partnerships with Chinese companies making engines there, at least one of the companies does mostly exports if memory serves me correctly-- which it may. Plus the GY6 is a clone of Honda licensing their old engines out to Taiwanese companies the way I heard it. SO yes the Chinese don't use EFI and use many other cheap components like cheap plastics on their scoots---which is how they are able to sell for 1/3 the price or less than what the Japanese bikes sell for-- but the main engine shape, size and general design is still very similar in many ways the way I see it. Also the QMB and GY6 engines can be very very reliable, have many 10's of thousands of miles of a service life if taken care of properly. One problem is the Chinese scoots are SOOO cheap that many people have troub;le justifying properly servicing them so they just keep them ghetto, discard them and get new ones and you end up seeing someone else riding the scraps instead of epople properly keeping them maintained like a Honda, Yamaha or Vespa owner might have their nicley maintained ride
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Post by lilpinny on Sept 30, 2018 23:41:35 GMT -5
I mean I guess I agree on most of what you say. I'm with you brother. Let's just agree that you get what you pay for -- the rest you gotta work for.
The only people I see complaining about engines are the ones that went way too cheap, got some GY6 off of ebay and they got problems. And you can't fix that.
I got a Chinese GY6 on my Ruck (that I got from Drow) and a 170 Taida big bore, ported and polished. The whole top end. I built it and I've never had a problem with it -- Chinese and Taiwanese.
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Post by scootnewb on Oct 2, 2018 9:54:32 GMT -5
@sir Scoots-A-Lot
Although I love 2 strokes my plan is to get a Hellcat and drop in the z190. It seems like it's pretty sick.
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Post by katt on Oct 7, 2018 22:28:30 GMT -5
@sir Scoots-A-Lot Although I love 2 strokes my plan is to get a Hellcat and drop in the z190. It seems like it's pretty sick. You may say I'm a dreamer... But I'm not the only one
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