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Post by snaker on Feb 21, 2019 11:13:38 GMT -5
The road video's didn't show much. The one video showing the CVT operating was somewhat telling.
It looked like it engaged but didn't upshift although hard to tell because you kept jackin with the throttle and not giving any time to see much.
My guess is either pulley is stuck and not allowing upshifts.
You mentioned that you replaced sliders so you know how to access that. You should have already been back in there by now. Don't know what you mean by messing up a drive plate.
3 pages into your thread and you still have a big list of things to check.
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Post by snaker on Feb 21, 2019 11:25:04 GMT -5
I use Red Loctite on those nuts specifically. Achieving stiffness a a problem that a lot of guys have. You got this long shaft thing with a tip on the end that a nut won’t hang on to... But seriously, loctite is not superglue. You want to make sure that the nut and drive face is sitting flush on the shaft. If its has room to wiggle around it’ll shake it loose. I’d almost take that thing apart and hit it with a torch and a wire brush to clean all the old loctite off of it. Yeah. Use red lock tight on EVERY bolt on a GY6............... Whoa easy on recommending red lock tight on everything. That stuff can cause as many problems as it fixes. I buy the blue lock tight in the party pack sizes and use on lots of places on lots of machines but I keep the red and other lock tights to required special situations.
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 14:39:20 GMT -5
The road video's didn't show much. The one video showing the CVT operating was somewhat telling. It looked like it engaged but didn't upshift although hard to tell because you kept jackin with the throttle and not giving any time to see much. My guess is either pulley is stuck and not allowing upshifts. You mentioned that you replaced sliders so you know how to access that. You should have already been back in there by now. Don't know what you mean by messing up a drive plate. 3 pages into your thread and you still have a big list of things to check. It's hard to know what to film because I don't know what to be looking for so I tried to be all encompassing. I figured before I filmed, that the road video may be useless. I mainly wanted to capture the spike in RPMs and no acceleration. Can you elaborate on the upshifting? It sounds as if you're referencing the same scenario that DioSpeedDemon mentions in his #134 video I linked above. I plan on investigating this today. I've removed everything from the crankcase multiple times during troubleshooting. Usually I clean it out with the air compressor each time as well. Everything looks normal besides my worries up thread with the crankshaft splines. I can post pictures of the drive plate later today. Essentially, because of the way I was using 2 C clamps to compress the clutch, I applied probably too much pressure and not equally. So, it's created 1 or 2 downward dents on the surface of the drive plate. You'll understand better with the pictures. I'm not sure what I'm missing to check, can you elaborate? - Clutch shoes in installed in correct orientation and in good condition
- Clutch bell doesn't appear damaged, wear appears normal
- Contra spring appears functional
- Clutch springs are in correct orientation and in good condition
- Variator/weights/drive face are all looking good currently
- Belt is basically brand new OEM
So I think I'm still on good track with checking things off and not missing anything obvious... In my last post I noted the 2 new items on my agenda. I'm going to also confirm today that the belt is aligning correctly. Please let me know if you think I'm missing something specific though.
In regard to Locktite. I have a general understanding of what bolts it should and should not be applied. That said, recently I've had a more safe than sorry approach (due to repetitive loose drive face that started this thread) and using a bit more than normal on that nut. Drive face nut and clutch nut are the only 2 I currently use it on. Happypancake!! has eased my worry now that I have a torque wrench. I've had a MUCH easier time using it + my holding tool to crank those nuts to spec torque.
This thread started off as a troubleshooting rattling. I think everyone was correct in that it was just a loose drive face. Now, the current issue (clutch engagement or lack thereof) is a result of me taking the clutch apart while I had the CVT open. I was trying to kill all the birds with 1 stone.
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Post by Happypancake! on Feb 21, 2019 17:40:28 GMT -5
There is a small hook on the plate that may hang up. I normally cut the hook off.
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Post by snaker on Feb 21, 2019 19:53:21 GMT -5
In the video the clutch appears to be functioning. The pulley ratio starts out looking normal. The drive pulley starts out with a small apparent diameter with the belt top and bottom relatively close together. The driven pulley starts out with a large apparent diameter with the belt top and bottom relatively far apart. As you give it throttle the clutch appears to engage (good). Normally when you add throttle the CVT begins to upshift as in: The drive pulley closes, the pulley has a large apparent diameter with belt top and bottom relatively far apart. The situation at the driven pulley is just the opposite. Search how GY6 CVT's work and you will see dozens of examples. I didn't see the belt make that transition in your video although I couldn't tell how much throttle you were giving it.
If you damaged one of the pulley's it becomes a problem. The rpm's that they spin at is no joke. I would replace.
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 20:05:44 GMT -5
There is a small hook on the plate that may hang up. I normally cut the hook off. I definitely can't open it that much. I rebuilt it tonight, cleaned the inner half of pulley, spring, thin ring and put it all together. Made sure to align the 3 spikes. Put it together with just my hands and feet even. Still no go though. So. What Snaker is saying about no transition paired with how much you're demonstrating you're able to compress the spring. I think I might have a problem here. Let me take the clutch off the scooter and take it home with me to see if I can get to that point. I can't think what would stop it from compressing. Happypancake, I may need more info on finding this hook. Are you implying the hook prevents good compression?
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 20:07:05 GMT -5
Wait, I see you point to something at the very end?
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 20:16:05 GMT -5
......
I think I figured it out??
So the 3 spikes go **in-between** the plastic pieces?? Because otherwise the spring won't compress...
Just put the 2nd clutch together with this methodology and I'm able to replicate your video. This clutch has the bent drive plate but still gonna test it out. Putting it on scoot after post.
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Post by Happypancake! on Feb 21, 2019 20:27:13 GMT -5
Aces
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 20:34:53 GMT -5
IM BACK BABY
more details to come. I'm pulled over right now on my phone. So excited. Thank you all for your help I appreciate you.
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Post by Happypancake! on Feb 21, 2019 20:38:09 GMT -5
Now lets GET that beast cruzing at 50+ MPH
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 22:44:30 GMT -5
Happypancake!! -- Your video was super helpful in simply demonstrating what I should expect to feel/see when doing the compression test with my hands. I'm still a bit curious on that hook though if you care to elaborate. No pressure lol, I don't wanna mess anything else up for a bit. I need to go review the video I mentioned previously, #136. I thought that the video said to place the spikes under the plastic caps. This is **not** the case! Regardless of what's right or wrong, I hadn't even been considering this part before when reassembling the clutches. So I'm 99% this was my problem all along, I probably was unlucky and was placing the spikes in the wrong spot each time. I need to go back and re-watch the video to see if it was stated incorrectly or if I just misheard/comprehended. Probably the latter. :3 About riding so far -- things feel much much more normal albeit the off-the-line acceleration feels a bit sloppy. Didn't go for a long ride at all, didn't have the right gear but got it up to 35. The acceleration could just be me needing to re-adjust to feeling the OEM belt I put back in. Also, the clutch with the bent up drive plate is installed currently, I'll swap that out this weekend with the nice new one. This weekend will be clutch correction rebuild weekend, lol what a party. Thanks again, so much, for your advice, continued following, and probably patience. I'm very happy to get back to posting in the build thread for this Ruckus instead of here. I'm with you Happypancake, I'm shooting for those speeds. I GET more and more prideful of this 50cc every day. I may need to lose some weight though and much much learning to do. Lastly, the real test here will be to see if the drive face becomes loose again. I did toque it tonight, but felt lose now that the clutch is giving belt proper slack. So, I jammed it with the impact. (is that bad?) and it felt stiff and sturdy. No rattle at all during test ride and ride home. Goodnight!
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Post by Happypancake! on Feb 21, 2019 22:51:23 GMT -5
Don't worry about the hook.. Buy a Polini varpator (The Ruck Shop has a fair price ) with 4.5 gm DR Pulley sliders and report back.
Jamming w/ the impact IS bad. U can F UP the crank splines.
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 23:12:12 GMT -5
I need to refer back to my service manual more thoroughly. The damn thing talks about the tabs/drive plate when going over clutch maintenance. DOH!
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 21, 2019 23:14:56 GMT -5
Ah, see your post. Hadn't refreshed.
Already have that variator, currently running 5.5g sliders. I'm 6'2" at 230lbs~. You think I should go down to 4.5g still? I've had them in before. I can try and find them and get numbers on pad now that I have an actual tach. I'm running OEM belt currently too, general consensus seems to do use it.
Keep in mind, although I like top speed - this is a daily driver around a city and I need to remain some what zippy. Dunno if that's a factor much.
Copy that on the impact. Given that -- what's your advice for getting the drive face solidly tight with just a ratchet or torque wrench? I have a video I can share that shows me trying to get it tight but failing.
Thoughts on lightened clutch bell? I still have flywheel on my radar but that might be a bit.
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