dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 14, 2019 13:17:35 GMT -5
I'm at work and can't check anything or test stuff. Trying to get off early and go home. I had to run an errand at work, when I went to leave some weird issues happened. The ride this morning to work was OK. Here's a video right after I first started it after 2hr 50F sitting; youtu.be/uuNMdZTJlLkWhen I open the throttle and close it, the RPMs don't fall normally. I shut the bike off and let it sit for a few minutes, afterwards seemed fine. Less concerned about this than what's below. After starting it up the 1st and 2nd time and since... there is a noticeable high-pitched rattle coming from the CVT case. I use red Locktite on all my nuts and bolts when tuning; youtu.be/p0GHgn-Gr84In the past, when I've heard this noise, it's typically resulted in a loose variator or clutch nut. I've had it fall off once w/o the crankcase cause I was tuning without Locktite. I've also had it been running loose in the CVT once a day after tuning. I did use Locktite. I've used Locktite every time since the 1 incident. I ran the errand. Still sounded bad when I got there and sounded bad, maybe worse, when I returned to work. So, is it possible that a stripped variator nut or crankshaft could be causing this? I'm worried that's happened and I'll need to replace the crankshaft if the splines are messed up. I'm going to nurse it home this afternoon, try not to go above 30 or something. Luckily, not TOO hilly on the way. I will open up CVT and report back. Thank you in advance for any advice. .-
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Post by lilpinny on Feb 14, 2019 18:20:14 GMT -5
Pop the CVT cover off when you get home and take a look. Check your oil. Fire it up with the cover off.
It's really hard to figure out where those sounds are coming from on the CVT. Could be coming from the other side of the engine, cylinder , who knows .
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 14, 2019 19:21:54 GMT -5
I have a couple videos and pictures that I'll post later. I'm having a hard time getting TapaTalk to let me upload, plus I don't want it to compress.
Took the CVT cover off and it was dirty as hell. Lots of dust from last few weeks when I last had it off.
But, both nuts still looked to be in place and were tight. I could see the Locktite still.
Ran it, actually sounded good. That was a surprise.
Then I noticed that I'm running a Polini belt and said f*** that and took everything off to swap for a new Bando I had.
Additionally, I replaced the clutch snap ring because it was a bit bent but holding.
The clutch pads looked a little scratched up and a few gouges, that was concerning. Couldn't see any damage in the case or pokey pieces sticking out.
I noticed the washer on the variator, not the ratchet, was a little loose around the shaft. I thought that was weird so grabbed a spare I have. I have a lot of spares of things lol. The new one was also loose. I looked at the shaft and it kinda looked worn down? I don't really know to be honest .. I have pictures that I'll upload later. Put the new one on.
Took air compressor to everything to get clean.
Put it all back on. Locktite and all. Let it cure.
Fired up without CVT and the rattle was back. Kinda wack. Let it run some. It's definitely coming from the variator or crankshaft. That side of the CVT rather.
Shut it off. Looked at stuff for awhile. Turned it on. Turned it off. Turned it on. Turned it off.
The noise seemed to die down after awhile of running. But was still there. Turned it off and started rotating the variator with my hand. There is a spot in the rotation where it sticks pretty bad. I hadn't really noticed before but can't find where the friction is coming from exactly. Seems in the back or middle.
Do people grease these things on a Ruckus or scooter in general?
Put CVT back on and let it run. Didn't sound awful. Decided to go for a ride.
Took a while for the belt to take but after 5 miles I was getting to 40 and at idle, not much noise at all. After 5 more miles things were feeling a lot better and I wasn't hearing the noise.
Went home. On the way, kinda seemed like the noise came back but not really sure. When I got home, not really hearing anything.
Don't have time to check CVT again tonight but will tomorrow after work.
Notes: things have changed with the new belt. I'm making sure not to mix changes with that into this noise. Hard to explain but i can hear/feel the two independently.
With the new belt, acceleration is a bit ... Soft... But I'm getting to 30 fine, and upwards of 40 still.
My tach came in tonight. Going to hook that up soon.
The ride to and from work tomorrow will be the test to see if the weird rattle comes back, I guess.
I'm glad it wasn't a loose nut though, cause I'm paranoid. Hopefully it's nothing serious though that'll return.
I'm long winded with the commentary, sorry.
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 14, 2019 19:31:32 GMT -5
It doesn't seem like splines are shaved down. Didn't mention that.
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Post by lilpinny on Feb 14, 2019 21:54:27 GMT -5
Maybe it’ll just fix itself? That’s always a possibility
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Post by ryan_ott on Feb 14, 2019 22:51:12 GMT -5
The spot that the variator sticks, watching your video, just appears to be the compression stroke. The rollers and or guides may just be worn. It’ll quiet down as it heats up because clearances get tighter. It’s worth a look.
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 15, 2019 12:27:14 GMT -5
lilpinny, that would be ideal haha. You made me think... I may be just extra paranoid because of the 1 incident where my variator flew off mid-ride albeit the CVT cover was off and no locktite (tuning run). Ryan, you're referring to the first video, correct? Where the RPMs are not falling quickly? Hmm compression stroke, that's engine related right. How easy of a look are we talking? I'm not opposed, just want to know how heavy a job this may be. Engine has ~4000 miles, 2000 in the last year. 2009 scooter. Here's 1 last video from last night in reference to my last post where the variator sticks when I manually rotate it. Any thoughts? youtu.be/94USjQ6bYBoThe ride to work this morning was pretty good. No odd noises. There was 1 moment at a red light where I thought it came back but by the time I got to work, sounded fine. Gonna hook the tach up after work tonight. Pretty excited to get some figures on paper before rain weekend. Thanks y'all for the help.
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Post by Happypancake! on Feb 15, 2019 17:15:08 GMT -5
Pull off the drive face / variator and start up. Noise gone?
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 15, 2019 19:51:57 GMT -5
Pull off the drive face / variator and start up. Noise gone? ... didnt realize I could do that and not hurt something. TIL. Went out for a ride tonight and it seemed OK. Little rattle here and there though. None when parked. I'll report back if it doesn't rain tomorrow. Thanks What could it be if the rattle *was* there still? Something like Ryan is suggesting?
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Post by Happypancake! on Feb 15, 2019 19:53:15 GMT -5
Pull off the drive face / variator and start up. Noise gone? ... didnt realize I could do that and not hurt something. TIL. Went out for a ride tonight and it seemed OK. Little rattle here and there though. None when parked. I'll report back if it doesn't rain tomorrow. Thanks What could it be if the rattle *was* there still? Something like Ryan is suggesting? Loose driveface
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 17, 2019 12:55:31 GMT -5
Was able to peek a look at the CVT again today and try some things. First off, yep, it's definitely the drive face. I wiggled it, and it's loose. I took a new drive face and put it on the crankshaft, also loose. My point was to see if maybe the teeth on the drive face were ground down. However, the more I look at it now, I'm worried it's actually the crankshaft splines themselves that are worn down and causing this. I'm hoping someone can confirm this is the case or not. Additionally, there are some metal bits showing up in the crankcase and I can't tell where they are coming from. I thought maybe the inside of the clutch bell, but that shows regular wear from clutch shoes. No actual gouges or scratches or anything. I can only be left to wonder if the metal bits are coming from the splines and grooves pounding on each other cause of looseness. I'm SOL right now with all my scoots taken apart. I took both my Ruckus clutches apart to swap the shoes with new ones and can't get the damned snap rings in. I don't want to damage the metal so I'm waiting for it to get a bit warmer before trying again. I'm frustrated right now, taking a break. Any advice here? Is this indicative of an upcoming crankshaft replacement? Can you repair just the splines? How big of jobs are these?
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 17, 2019 12:56:23 GMT -5
The pictures aren't that great and I apologize but take a look toward the middle of the splines, that's where I think the wear down is. The edges look thick and wide, but the middle is where I get the most give with the drive face.
Edit: Below
The other day when I was checking things, during original post. After the Locktite had cured, not even the drive face was budging. It felt great.
Then today, when I opened CVT to check, like I said above, it's loose. Also, after I put everything on today for my test ride, Locktite cured, it remained loose and I was unable to get it to be stiff. So... I think it's the splines. That's the reasoning, I guess.
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Post by Happypancake! on Feb 17, 2019 15:08:18 GMT -5
Splines look ok from pics. Hope you are using both the kick start washer and the second washer.
The drive face can seem like its tight but really not. once all together, tighten the nut with you hands. then turn the engine / drive face by hand a 1/4 turn.
if the drive face is loose, hand tighten again. do this several times until face is tight.
TORQUE to 24 ft-lbs. I have never used locktite.
Loose drivefaces typically are after it modded w/ the nipple shave
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Post by lilpinny on Feb 17, 2019 15:14:34 GMT -5
I use Red Loctite on those nuts specifically.
Achieving stiffness a a problem that a lot of guys have. You got this long shaft thing with a tip on the end that a nut won’t hang on to...
But seriously, loctite is not superglue. You want to make sure that the nut and drive face is sitting flush on the shaft. If its has room to wiggle around it’ll shake it loose.
I’d almost take that thing apart and hit it with a torch and a wire brush to clean all the old loctite off of it.
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dotdash
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 231
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Post by dotdash on Feb 17, 2019 15:34:07 GMT -5
I gotcha, I hear you both loud and clear. I don't have a torque wrench, gonna get a starter from HF now. I will try to hand tighten, run, tighten, run, a bit and see what I get. Problem is after a while I can't get it to go any tighter with out everything wanting to rotate. But, maybe a torque wrench will better help guide where I'm currently at in those situations. I'll report back.
Sure those splines don't look bad?...
Finally got the clutches back together. What do you all use to compress these? I was using C clamps but don't want to bend the drive plate. I saw 90GTVerts creation, should I use that?
Edit : using both washers and using locktite, and cleaning old locktite between tries, to best of ability
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