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Post by ThaiGyro on Apr 19, 2017 6:51:55 GMT -5
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Post by ThaiGyro on Apr 4, 2017 5:26:06 GMT -5
Haha...milly, my little scooter has a diff, but never mix V8 with vodka before done driving.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 27, 2017 6:22:03 GMT -5
I think what Vert is stating here is true. I have said that most high end racing use air boxes and they are nearly all 4 strokes these days. I believe that two strokes gain some better advantage in fuel delivery, by the complex system of pressure differential...via porting, which uses exhaust impulses as assistance...similar to low end supercharging, but "pulsed pressure" by designed delivery.
I am beginning to think that the older, if better 2 stroke designs combined crankcase porting with more positive shutoff at the intake end, to make better torque, but not top end. They required lesser intricate pipes to make power, but focused the control toward the rotary valve shape and timing.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 27, 2017 5:08:01 GMT -5
Resonent air box chambers: (I do not test these anymore, but tests will always show value gains versus no/pod filters.
NOTE: I said "value" because many think pod filters are the bomb. Nearly any good dyno test will prove something different. Pod filter are serious sex appeal, both visually and sound, if you like the sound of excess fuel being spent, but those manufacturers/distributors are selling sexy underwear, not performance.
The comparison is horizontal, not vertical, meaning "We can guarantee you XX over Joe Blow", or "Can add as much as 15% horsepower". Yes? Over what? Stock? Not necessarily...over their competition!
As previously stated...pod systems are harder to tune, but there's more.
My dyno guy near Seattle, when I was racing D-Sports cars, (950 lb. min, 1000cc engine limit) showed me how much I was potentially losing. I did not believe him, really. I was running a modified Yamaha YZF-R1, with my mods made 172 hp on his dyno...with pod foam filters on a good day, no air box. He simply strapped on K&N's and we saw near 176hp. When we made some body allowance for the "stock" Yamaha air box and filter, it came to 179.4 hp. We went further and used a filter system ahead of the intake runners in the main air scoop inlet and got another 4 or 5 hp. We roughly gained 10 hp+ by playing with air! (Some gain was not realized until around 120+ mph vehicle speed)
Some of that is seeming fantasy, but can be real on a 50 or 70cc engine. Maybe someone has this general "data"?
For example: Stock Honda Dio 49cc, has about 4.7 hp or less. I have seen many with 9 or more. Most have pod filters. Bad ass? I have seen ones with stock or modified air boxes that make near 11 hp. Yes, many other changes and "upgrades", just as my Yamaha 1000 saw...and it was already "high performance".
You can make real horsepower with pod filters! You cannot make more than a properly tuned resonent air box!
Really? If you are now thinking that drag racers have no filtration...you are likely correct! They tune only for zero to OMG, with no regard for fuel consumed, nor idling...and they do not run E85!! They run fancy gas and fuels that cost more than your annual salary. They also rebuild after each run! That is not a good comparison.
There is a balance to strike here...Consider this in your head: 1) How do you drive your bike on an average day? 2) What do you think you want it to do better? 3) You cannot have a GREAT top end bike, (Given same displacement) without sacrificing power elsewhere. 4) You cannot have a GREAT hole-shot bike without giving up some on top.
I think there lies very much intel on various threads on this site. That, and a willingness to help you. You often must read the information and refine your questions toward your own goals.
I ask many of those same questions...because I a not a scooter guy by history. I am a former road racer and current parts builder who understands the power of many minds put together.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 27, 2017 0:44:20 GMT -5
Looks right Benji. I guess this is simple in my history. 31 parts including the pump appears to be a few less parts than a Mikuni VM18, without the pump...not sure about the clones.
Nearly half the Tillotson is diaphragm pump parts. I guess that idea suits me better. Good call on the choke, however, I often ignore that idea, since I live In Thailand where there is very little need. I have seen people hand choke, as you describe, on race motors.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 26, 2017 3:58:40 GMT -5
All great info and feedback! My chain saw competition friends in Montana recommended these a few years ago, but though too pricey for most people.
They did say the response time was super good and idling was not so good, but for street use possible to find something in between.
I did just ask about Chinese knockoffs. They said new were OK to equal, but seemed to have issues after a period. One guy said "sloppy threads in the low end adjuster".
I will give an update if we get one to play with.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 26, 2017 3:44:34 GMT -5
The "remote' that I have seen is a simple high and low thumb screw, mounted on the body...as seen in their pictures... Yes, very pricey, unless you can envision a 14, 15, 16 , 17, 18, 19mm version designed for a chainsaw...can you say "Custom?" I want a version that can sell here in Asia for near or under $100 USD.
I need a version that has the throttle lever and adjusting screws on opposite sides. Tillotson can do that...the Vamec-Tryton B-18 from Italy is made that way.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 24, 2017 6:38:48 GMT -5
The "remote' that I have seen is a simple high and low thumb screw...as seen in their pictures... Yes, very pricey, unless you can envision a 14, 15, 16 , 17, 18, 19mm version designed for a chainsaw...can you say "Custom?" I want a version that can sell here in Asia for near $100 USD.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 24, 2017 4:54:54 GMT -5
I have been working with some karting crazies here in the SE Asia region. They seem to run both 2 and 4 stroke engines. After a little pit wandering and watching to see who-dunnit on lap times, especially qualifying...they nearly all ran a hybrid carb. I have seen these in larger venturi/butterfly valve sizes on airplane engines. Not really a surprise that someone stole the design for racing cars/karts/bikes/boats and chainsaws! The general idea is less parts = less time tuning. As I am a fuel injection nut, it makes sense. If this can make our collective lives simpler, with performance gains, then let me at it. I found a large company in Ireland (Tillotson) who manufactures parts for IAME and other organizations...and another in Italy who does the same. (Tryton) The design is simple-ish, maybe. The carb has a built in pump that takes whatever liquid head pressure is available, using intake vacuum pumps fuel into the venturi after the butterfly valve. In all I have seen, they have a low end circuit and a high end circuit. Each has an external thumb screw operated valve. Because of the higher venturi velocities, you can expect to use a lower size than with conventional carbs. Tillotson says: Anywhere from 2 to 6, depending on required horsepower. That means, for example...if 19mm is near ideal for a good to great performing 50cc, you might expect a 13 to 17mm, depending on other performance installations. We are going to buy a Tryton B18 and test it on a 50cc engine. After a few attempts to find happiness with Tillotson, they seem to be too big for small needs. Their dealer in Asia is just a front for any ones parts. I am a baby boomer who believes in customer support, so doing my own thing again. The Tryton people have told me that they can create venturies to spec, within design limits on larger orders. We will test and adjust as we can afford. What say you all?
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 24, 2017 4:03:25 GMT -5
Hi Joshua, There are quite a number of good threads on this subject. Though the variables are many, you can achieve success either way. I am an airbox guy for many reasons, but you should find the threads if Vert doesn't direct you first. Here is my simple comparison: No airbox makes filter changing easy and low cost, but carb tuning and maybe ignition upgrades are time consuming, if done correctly. Atmospheric conditions can often make tuning more dramatic...or traumatic even. Keeping the box gives you better potential for performance gains with simpler tuning, though the same steps, just less volatile. Filters still cheap and easy to clean. There is a reason that F1 cars, WSB, MotoGP and nearly every other high performance racing use resonent air boxes. You cannot achieve any "ram" effect on a scooter, with or without air box, but it will improve flow. Look at this kart page: gorotax.com/rotax-engine-packages/Rotax 125's in various stages of tuning/restriction. All have airboxes. The Max Evo engines put up 30 hp. Food for thought.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 23, 2017 6:55:14 GMT -5
No. I've had scooters with aggressive porting and pipes that fire up within a kick or two and I've had bone stock scooters that are a pain to start. If the jetting and settings are really correct and the compression is good and reeds are sealing and fuel is good and spark is strong and timed right and so on, you should be able to start a scooter with a tuned pipe easily. Hahaha! Vert said it! A healthy engine should start easily! Often over looked is accumulated goo in the exhaust port/pipe/muffler. In my race days, we had issues with humidity, that were tougher to deal with. IMO, if you do a high rpm chop every time you get home or stop, it helps a bit. I like ignition timing advance to near max also.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 15, 2017 3:31:25 GMT -5
Yes, I thought about that and how it would happen. The answer is the same! Pull over! Check your data, adjust and go, go, go! Better than fiddling with brass/gaskets/clamps/fuel...haha, bloody knuckles?
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 14, 2017 23:46:51 GMT -5
Thought maybe some of you might have interest in this company. Nano EFI, is a software company who's owner is developing an EFI brain for spark and fuel control . He is doing some fun and interesting things, such as wireless tuning! Think about that. Do your speed runs with real time tuning on your iPhone/Android. The URL: www.nanoefi.com/2017/01/04/2017-moving-forward-v0-1-7-new-changes-direction/Facebook: Nano EFI
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 14, 2017 6:52:50 GMT -5
This is interesting. Oldgeek and I have both had quite negative experiences with Scooter Attack. Not sure why. I like their website, but got the feeling that they seem to think they are "experts". I would never buy from "sales" people who tell me "you can't", but always from those who can show me I can, and how! Even at 60...not many!
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 13, 2017 7:07:17 GMT -5
Hi oldgeek and all. I am an American living in Thailand...plus 3 years in China before that. Depending on where your order originates and equally importantly, what US Customs port...you could be barking up 3 different trees! Supplier/Export Customs/Import Customs.
If we order anything from the US/Canada...it will be opened and inspected before any Thai delivery, then "repackaged"...with 30 to 40% fees on invoice value! Note worthy: If you are lucky enough to "import" your parts on your own via air flight, you will find near zero export scrutiny outside of the US. To the credit of TSA agents, they are the best in small towns...OK in big centers.
What you have shown appears to be the average Chinese package, made from recycled junk that was thrice recycled prior. Dog hair boxes would be an improvement.
Before you think I am bashing Thailand, they are by far the best in Asia...I had much the same shite when buying from HK or China or Indonesia even Singapore. Philipines, Spain and some others?? Taking home delivery in Montana, I found a carbon fiber front fender with serious gouges in it...NEW! It was not manufactured like that, but the US Government and minions do not give a crap! You get it and you pay for it. Same in Thai, same in China, same in many other places I have lived. I buy many, many parts as needed, which is why I buy local...wherever that may be.
Someone mentioned a note to CS? (Acronyms are the scurvy of modern man...Ie :Chicken shit? Charlie Sheen, etc.)...but if you mean Customer Service, forget that, if from Asia or some parts of Europe. They have no clue, no training, no care...it doesn't matter to a worker making 300 Bhat per day as in Thai. ($8.50 per day or less, not per hour). You simply get your super inexpensive if damaged parts and fix them! Still cheaper! Get it? The reason you can afford foreign parts is just that! It has no effect on them whatsoever!
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