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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 9, 2016 18:28:31 GMT -5
Second Running Scooter
While I was waiting for the valve wrenches I started in on a second bike, sorry no pics yet. I replaced the carb, drained the tank, and put a fresh 12V battery in it. It started up okay and I ran it for a while to make sure it didn't have the same issue as the red bike.
I had a few 7ah 12V batteries so I assembled a test pack. Not enough to ride, but enough to verify the hybrid system works as I assumed it did.
I put the bike on the center stand, put the switch in "Mix" and twisted the throttle. The hub motor fired up and quickly got up to speed, then the starter kicked in and the gas engine fired up. It works! I have no idea what speed it switches over since it was up in the air.
After the first couple of successes the gas engine had difficulty starting. I looked down and saw the intake manifold was cracked, old rubber I guess. I'll need to address this before I test again.
Misc. Notes
When I first tried starting these bikes I didn't have spark ... kickstand has to be up to start them. I don't understand why the starter motor would run if it wasn't going to have spark, silly design.
These bikes have obviously been sitting for more than a year. I need to look closely at all of the hoses. Maybe I'll test with my propane torch for vacuum leaks.
All of the bikes are in varying states of disassembly, someone tried to get them running and failed.
Once you hit 25mph the engine generates enough power to charge the batteries. There's a set of LEDs that show the status of the 36V battery system. Even with the batteries out they light up once the system generates 36V. I assume this means that either the stator is different, or there's a 12V to 36V converter. Again, no docs so I'll have to figure it out.
These bikes ride REALLY nice, much smoother on the road than my Taotaos. The 14" wheels are a big plus. Even if I don't use the hybrid feature the ride is well worth the work I'm putting in to these bikes.
The brakes are much better than the Taotaos as well, they stop really quickly.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 9, 2016 17:48:18 GMT -5
Is the engine just a normal gy6 mill, of was it specially built to be a hybrid? I shard the same skepticism stated above. The starter would be getting a hell of a workout if the engine is shut off under 20 and started back again after 20+, wouldn't it? Unless the designer engineered a special half starting mdchanism to work with the hub motor? ? It looks like a regular GY6, the hub motor bolts on like the wheel of a standard scooter. I won't know if the motor stops again until I do an extended run with a battery pack. I have some SLA AND 18650s on the way to build both types of packs. The SLA will be easiest, so that will be my primary test platform. It uses the regular GY6 starter to get the engine going.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 9, 2016 17:43:06 GMT -5
First Running Scooter
The red one in the picture is the first one I got running after I replaced the carb, draining the gas, and putting a fresh 12V battery in it. It seemed to run okay so I took it for a test drive. I drove about 2 miles and the engine stuttered and then stopped completely. It started again, and died in about one tenth of a mile. It refused to start so I had to call for a ride and went back and picked it up with my truck.
I figured the valves were adjusted too tight, I didn't own a set of wrenches for setting the valves so I ordered a set on Amazon.
...
Wrenches came in so I checked out my path to setting the valves. The battery/control box makes it impossible to get the valve cover off. You can see this in an earlier picture. I had to loosen all the side panels to get the box out. It didn't help that is was around 94 degrees and super humid. I looked down into the battery box and saw a pool of water, it was sweat dripping off my head.
Even with the box out of the way it's tough to get at the valves, nowhere near as easy as my Taotao. They were WAY off, I couldn't get any feeler gauges to fit. It took a bunch of loosening to get .002". I set them as best I could, closed it up, and reassembled everything. It started right up, easier than before, but I obviously set them too open. I could hear the unmistakable sound of clicking valves. Good enough to test my theory though.
I let the bike heat up and drove it around. All seemed good until it stumbled, but it didn't stop. It kept going but stumbled if I gave it full throttle. I wish these things had a manual choke so I could rule out a vacuum leak. Now I figure it was a combination of issues that caused it to die before. I'll look for vacuum leaks, check to make sure the PAIR system is connected properly. After that it's the tank valve and ignition system. I may just shotgun the ignition system, the parts are cheap enough.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 9, 2016 16:59:44 GMT -5
Once the engine is started I don't think it stops. I haven't built a big enough battery pack to really test it yet. I don't plan on running it in that mode anyway. I look at the electric drive as a backup in case of engine failure. It may also give you some much needed power when you need it. I'll test that as well.
There's a big honking relay box that I think is the center of the switch over. No documentation so I'm figuring it out as I go.
There is a separate 12V battery for the starting circuit of the GY6.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 8, 2016 22:59:43 GMT -5
Here's my promised series on my hybrid scooters, I purchased four hybrid scooters to bring back to life and two parts bikes. If I can get all six running and road legal, that would be a bonus. I went there thinking I'd get four complete scooters and noticed two more in the corner. I had no idea how I'd get them in my trailer, but five fit in the trailer and one in the truck bed. History of the Scooters
Back in 2008 a company called Veken Scooters imported a line of scooters built by the Chinese company ABAT. One of the models was a hybrid with an electric hub motor and a GY6 gas engine. Here are the specs compared to a Taotao ATM50, I own two of those as well. 2008 Veken VK-M50 vs. 2013 Taotao ATM50-A1
Veken had lots of problems with the ABAT build quality and eventually sued the company. They won the case and ABAT agreed to take them back and send replacements. Well, they took them back, but never delivered on the replacements. This helped kill the Veken company. A small number Veken scooters made it into the public's hands and as far as know they are the only hybrid scooters in the USA. The guy I purchased them from picked them up at a trade show along with a few electric only models and a couple 125cc versions of the hybrids. My first impressionsI haven't found much information about them online since the company's gone out of business. I've seen a few old craigslist ads and read about a dealer that had a couple, but that's about it. No manuals, no electronics diagrams, nothing. Luckily I already have the Taotao scooters, so I understand the GY6 fairly well. The hub motor is similar to the one on my ebike build, so I have a handle on that as well. There is no walk-through space in the front, that's occupied by the battery and electronic controls Side views: Hub motor: The engine and battery compartments are really tight (more on this later: The dash looks good and has charging indicators, oh, the motor charges the battery pack after reaching about 20mph The bike has three modes: Motor - 36v electric hub motor alone Engine - GY6 power alone Mix - Starts off in electric mode, starts GY6 engine after you reach around 20mph I've tested all three modes with a 36V SLA temporary battery. The next installment will go over getting them running.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 7, 2016 13:05:45 GMT -5
One of my scoots has the 47mm kit with replacement head and high lift cam. The power difference is huge. I'm around 210 lbs. and I have trouble keeping it under 35mph. My 110 lb. daughter can't keep up with her 50cc scoot.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Jul 7, 2016 4:14:08 GMT -5
I've been riding motorcycles since the early 1970s, so when my daughter decided to buy a scooter I took her to all the local dealers. Long story short, she ended up with a new pink Taotao ATM-50. It fit her budget and her size. Oh, that's the end of the story ...
When she was young we used to ride bikes together, so I decided to buy one as well. I'm cheap, er frugal, so I checked out the ads on craigslist. I figured I'd buy one for myself and maybe one for my wife and son to share. The first scooter I picked up was a blue Linhai 49cc scooter with only 85 miles on it for $300. The second was a 2015 black Taotao ATM-50 with an 80cc upgrade for $240. Neither bike was in running condition, but I figured I could fix them.
After talking to the dealer where my daughter bought her scooter we came to an agreement: I would create a website for them and they would fix my bikes! Yeah, a scooter without a website, weird. I started work on the website and dropped off my bikes. While they were working on them I decided to paint the body panels to make them more visible. I'll post a thread on this later.
The Taotao is running, but I managed to crack the right crankcase frame mount by dropping it off the center stand while sitting on it. I didn't notice it and took it down the road. The cracked mount caused the tire to contact the frame, damage the sidewall, and blow out the tire. I did a controlled dump of the bike and rolled onto the grass, not a scratch on me, but my custom paint doesn't look as nice on the right side.
The Linhai still isn't running, something about pinging and lack of spark. I may run out of patience and fix it myself.
But wait, there's more
During my initial search I found a guy selling hybrid mopeds, gas/electric. Low miles, but they had been sitting for years. He wanted around $500 each, I offered $325 for one, he stopped replying to my texts. Eventually his price started to come down, until it was lower than what I offered. I popped up to see them and ended up buying four bikes in varying states of disassembly, two parts bikes, and boxes of body panels. Another thread on this will be coming, these bikes are interesting.
Eventually my garage will contain my daughter's bike, my 80cc Taotao, and two of the hybrids. I'm going to sell the rest through the dealer.
So, that's my weird intro post.
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Post by dachurchpcguy on Apr 12, 2016 21:58:12 GMT -5
Krytonite locks and chains are pretty good. I've had New York Fahgettaboudit set for a few years. They come with coverage against theft for one year, you can upgrade to three years for $25 I think. I picked up a New York Noose for my daughter, it's a lot lighter than my chain setup.
We put the noose around a pole and then lock it to the frame under the scooter. The lock is the weak link, but the way we lock it it's REALLY hard to get to. We're also installing an alarm.
My thought is that if you make it hard to steal a scooter quickly they'll find an easier target. There are loads of easier targets out there.
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