2006 TGB R50X "Bat outta Hell"

[Elektrey]

Jun 22, 2015 18:37:15 GMT -5 190mech said:

DUDE!Roll your own!!(cant ya tell I was a hippy in my younger days?),OR make it into a DC CDI,get a DIO CDI box that Niz swapped to an Eton;
49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/12421/due-gratitude
Get a DC iggy coil,wire it up and Forget TGB parts!!
I'll be glad to help any way I can to further scooter tech for the world...

Lol I don't know if I'll be able to rewrap myself the wire is really really thin and I can't even get it off it won't cut off.

Might look into making it a DC CDI though my 8 pole stator one of the coils has come off of the wire lead so I gotta figure out how to solder it back on or something, and I'd prefer to keep it an AC CDI I'm afraid ill run into even more issues during conversion along with different timing etc.

[190mech]

Here is an Eton engine on my work bench now,note the lack of the exciter coil?It doesnt need it!Uses battery to power the CDI which I feel is the best method,dirt simple wiring too..





Here is an Eton manual pdf that has the wiring diagrams and a CDI wiring pin out at the end of the manual..

get2itparts.com/etontech/SM_PN2.pdf

Since Ive got an Eton on the bench and a TGB on the floor,there should be enough data laying around here to make it work..

[Elektrey]

I'm going to wait to see what TGB Taiwan says first but converting to DC would require me to figure out how to reconnect the copper wire to the wire leads on my 8 pole stator and also
I would have to connect wires to the DC CDI connector which I have no idea how to do unless I can find the other half of the connecting part and then connect there.

[Elektrey]

Honestly I feel like just ordering the replacement part. It's just $100 to get this problem over with then sobeit. I don't feel like tinkering around with the system and splicing wires to convert to DC and hope that works and I don't feel like swapping flywheels which probably cost the same amount.

If I do order the part, Will I be fine riding around with the current stator (Obviously no riding at night)? I'm pretty confident it could start up with a full charge and ride like 10 or 15 miles and then have enough juice to start up again (jumper cables JIC also) but is this bad on the battery to drain some and then recharge some compared to just constantly charging at 13V?

EDIT: a better question to ask is, 190mech can I borrow your 4 pole rotor for the few months before the replacement stator comes or will you need it?

[190mech]

Sure!Send me a PM with the ship address..

[Elektrey]

John's Flywheel and Stator got to me today. Haven't had a chance to test them out because I'm missing my impact wrench, I think my brother took it. So I can't tighten down the flywheel nut.

Anyways, findings so far: flywheels exact same shape exact same pickup magnet location (already knew).

What's interesting is the 4 pole stator from John's scooter has about 7.5 ohms of resistance on the lamp/charge coils, where mine has about 1.2 ohms. Could this be the culprit?

His pickup coil was fine, about the same ohms as mine. I do note though, that his stator doesn't have the blue connector so it is a defect one, and will 90% likely fail with use/time.

Anyways, I wasn't going to do a test with the engine on, because this requires me to put the fan and half of the cooling shroud back on. I figure I can just use the starter and see what voltages I get.

Remember, I got 2-3v on lamp/charge @ cranking and 60v @ cranking for the 4 pole aftermarket stator with 8 pole flywheel.

First I will test with 4 pole flywheel, then I will test 4 pole stator with 8 pole flywheel.

If it turns out that the stator is no good, I'm going to request a refund from where I bought it.

As always, I will keep you guys posted!

[Elektrey]

Ok I found the impact wrench.

Here's what I found:

Cranking I get 40-45V on exciter, compared to 60V with 8 pole flywheel.
Cranking I get ~4-5V on lamp/charge compared to 2-3V with 8 pole flywheel.

I decided that was high enough to warrant a start up, but when I went to start it up my battery was completely dead, so I am charging it.

It will probably be later tonight before it has enough volts to start again.

[Elektrey]

Ok got it started and we have lights! and charging! (held it at like 5-6k and it rose up to 13 volts)

So it looks like you can't use the 8 pole flywheel with the 4 pole stator.

I don't think I'll test the stator that 190mech sent me because there's no need, and since the resistance is so high on the charge/lamp coils (7 ohm where my 4 pole and even 8 pole were around 1.0 ohm) I would gander that those coils are shot, but can't be sure.

[Jwhood]

John is the "Man" always goes out if his way too help memebers out,glad you got it up and running trey!!!

[Elektrey]

Took it for a drive. Noticed it shifts at like 8300 instead of 8600-8700 like it used it before I fixed the exhaust.
Could only get it to 50/51 instead of the usual 54 mph

Front light seemed like it was as bright as before. 70-80% brightness at like 3k RPM, 100% brightness at 4.5-5.5k RPM

One thing I noticed, lol. No tailight whatsoever. Going to have to look into that.
Also, when switching from the low beams to high beams it turns off low beams and takes like a second for the high beams to come on. Doesn't happen after you've done it recently though only when the high beams haven't been turned on in a while. Didn't notice this before. I think there might be a 3rd bulb in that front housing thats just always on.

[Elektrey]

www.cobrasales.com/docs/TGB-R50X-Wiring-Diagram-20091118.pdf

Can anyone clarify this for me? new to headlights and taillights.

What is "Position Lamp" under High Beam and Low Beam

Thanks.


Also, here's my plug.


too lean? should it be a bit darker? was taken with flash btw.
Idle looks to be rich yes? (ring around porcelain was dark brown)

EDIT: checked the resistances of the two bulbs.
Brake light: 1.0 ohm
Tail Light 4.4 ohm.

Doing some simple math tells me that if the tail light is 5W and the brake light is 21W, then the resistance of the tail light needs to be 4.2 times the brake light (21W/5W). I think it's right around there, and the brake lights work so the tail lights should work.

I think for kicks I will put in the stator john sent me, tomorrow.

I assume if it's blown that means open circuit right? Do these values look good? Can someone with a 21W/5W brake light bulb check their resistances? I'd be really grateful.

I have a theory: this stator doesn't output enough, and all of the power is going to the headlight because it has the least resistance (highest wattage)

[Elektrey]

Here's something I noticed, Key west owners please correct me if I'm wrong:

R50X has high beam, low beam, and a 3rd bulb in place a 5W bulb. (funny how both 5W bulbs aren't lighting up)
but the key west on its parts manual, only shows 1 bulb!? Is this true?

Is this why there is only one 4 pole stator, but two 4 pole rotors? I am guessing the 4 pole rotor for the R50x has stronger magnets!

I inquired about the prices and it looks like the Key west 4 pole rotor is $61 while the R50X 4 pole rotor is $90.

Then again, it could just be the R50X has the rotor with 4 holes for the 4 bolt hole fan style instead of 2 hole, BUT why would it be more expensive?

Also It looks like on the 4 pole stator:
0.5 coil go to the battery
2.5 coils go to lights

on the 8 pole:
0.5 coil go to the battery
6.5 coil go to the lights


Also there is the possibility that I attached the connector wrong to the other stator, and have the charge wire going to the lights, vice versa.

[moofus02]

Partition lamp is a low power daytime running light. Lots of states require motorcycles to burn the headlight at all times and that meets the law without drawing lots of power

[90GTVert]

At least in the Chinese scoots, some use a little 194 bulb. I found it to be worthless because no one would really see it in the daytime. I took mine out so I'd have slightly less draw since I use my high beam in the daytime anyway.

Look for power at the tail light. I wouldn't think the stator should have anything to do with your lack of a tail light if the headlight works. That should all be tied in together so unless there's a bad connection somewhere it should get power if the headlight does. Look at the diagram and you'll see that the wire #8 is powering the headlights (via dimmer switch), instrument lights, and cluster lights. It's gotta have power if your headlights work. If it were simply a lack of output to handle all lights, they should still all light but be dimmer. None should be totally out if others get bright. I've seen dim bulbs, LEDs that flicker, but never a bulb totally out on the same circuit while others are brightly lit. Since the bulbs not working are all the low watt filaments, maybe there was a spike or something the regulator/rectifier didn't handle and they blew when your stator failed?

If that spark plug has been in there for long, it's prob too lean. If not, make sure you've got a good mixture ring at the base of the porcelain.

[Elektrey]

Jun 27, 2015 3:59:42 GMT -5 moofus02 said:

Partition lamp is a low power daytime running light. Lots of states require motorcycles to burn the headlight at all times and that meets the law without drawing lots of power

interesting. On this scooter though it's either low beam on, or high beam on, no matter what. Can't turn them off.

Jun 27, 2015 9:32:57 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

At least in the Chinese scoots, some use a little 194 bulb. I found it to be worthless because no one would really see it in the daytime. I took mine out so I'd have slightly less draw since I use my high beam in the daytime anyway.

Look for power at the tail light. I wouldn't think the stator should have anything to do with your lack of a tail light if the headlight works. That should all be tied in together so unless there's a bad connection somewhere it should get power if the headlight does. Look at the diagram and you'll see that the wire #8 is powering the headlights (via dimmer switch), instrument lights, and cluster lights. It's gotta have power if your headlights work. If it were simply a lack of output to handle all lights, they should still all light but be dimmer. None should be totally out if others get bright. I've seen dim bulbs, LEDs that flicker, but never a bulb totally out on the same circuit while others are brightly lit. Since the bulbs not working are all the low watt filaments, maybe there was a spike or something the regulator/rectifier didn't handle and they blew when your stator failed?

If that spark plug has been in there for long, it's prob too lean. If not, make sure you've got a good mixture ring at the base of the porcelain.

Spark plug hasn't been in there for too long but I think I should go up a jet anyways.

Yes it seems the 5W position light and the 5W tail light are out. So maybe they are blown?

The exciter coil was what "went" on the stator, not the lamp/charge coils so I don't see how it spiked.

the tail light has to be getting power, it hooks up directly to the lamp coil along with the headlight. so if headlight is getting power, tail light should also.

I might try to hook up some leads from the battery to the tail light and see if it lights up.

Ok I hooked up the battery directly to the tail light and only the license plate lights come on. I believe those are both connected to the same plug pin. So my guess is the tail light is blown and probably the front position lamp too.