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Post by oldgeek on Mar 5, 2017 14:43:25 GMT -5
I have spent 4 hours today searching for the perfect tune on this carb but so far it escapes me. I can get it to rip like mad on takeoff and it pulls great up to speed and WOT, but I can tell it is a bit lean at upper middle because it hangs just a bit. Temps are staying below 285°F I have tried so many slide sizes, different needle, and needle clip positions it is mind boggling (at least my mind)LOl! With the current setup it does not hang anywhere and the top speed I have seen is 49mph although it seems to take a little long to get there.
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 5, 2017 15:41:03 GMT -5
I have spent 4 hours today searching for the perfect tune on this carb but so far it escapes me. I can get it to rip like mad on takeoff and it pulls great up to speed and WOT, but I can tell it is a bit lean at upper middle because it hangs just a bit. Temps are staying below 285°F I have tried so many slide sizes, different needle, and needle clip positions it is mind boggling (at least my mind)LOl! With the current setup it does not hang anywhere and the top speed I have seen is 49mph although it seems to take a little long to get there. I know this might sound like taking a step backwards, but Id try a different exhaust. Something a little less than the PG. I also spent many hours trying to find the right combo that worked for the PG exhaust. My setup has a narrow RPM range 6000 to 9700 to be exact. Any load under 6000 RPM, it would just bog down. |
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Post by oldgeek on Mar 5, 2017 15:47:16 GMT -5
Any suggestions on which exhaust to use? I have the V8 and the Phongeer short. What else is there? Phongeer long and? Arrow and the Polini cost to much.
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 5, 2017 16:52:30 GMT -5
Any suggestions on which exhaust to use? I have the V8 and the Phongeer short. What else is there? Phongeer long and? Arrow and the Polini cost to much. Id try the V8 or stock. I say this to get your "base" carb tune working. You went from stock carb & airbox and V8 exhaust which ran decent to the 19mm carb w/ doppler intake and filter and PG exhaust. Your basically trying the tune the carb & exhaust at the same time. I think if you just swapped back to the V8 exhaust, you will find tuning the 19mm carb easier. Then when you go back to the PG, you will find that you will need to up-jet just a smidge and do a lot of variator tuning. That PG wants higher revs. I had to completely change my cvt setup. Lighter sliders, (much)heavier clutch springs, and mild contra spring made the PG pipe work. It was recommenced by a couple people that I should run a larger carb(26-28mm) Having taller gears I was stuck with a lot of takeoff clutch slip. |
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Post by oldgeek on Mar 5, 2017 20:57:51 GMT -5
Id try the V8 or stock. I say this to get your "base" carb tune working. You went from stock carb & airbox and V8 exhaust which ran decent to the 19mm carb w/ doppler intake and filter and PG exhaust. Your basically trying the tune the carb & exhaust at the same time. Yeah I did take a big bite all at once, but I am so good at it!  Seriously, your suggestion is a good one, I will go that route when I get tired of chasing my tail! I went back to the stock airbox after a few mods to it. I wanted more filtering and control of the air. I dont know which is uglier, the stock air box or the Doppler filter. In the process of fitting the stock airbox on the Dellorto carb my throttle cable came up short, so I had to reroute it to gain some slack. It got dark on me before I finally got to tuning again so I will have to wait until later this week.    |
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Post by oldgeek on Mar 9, 2017 16:00:32 GMT -5
I finally got tired of chasing my tail getting this thing tuned with the PG short pipe and put the V8 pipe back on this scooter as gsx600racer suggested (thanks for the reality check!). I have a halfway decent tune going so far but it sucks to be back down to around 43 MPH. WOT temps are lower with this 19mm dell carb compared to what they were with the stock carb. I am still struggling with the overall tune of this scoot, but it's not nearly as bad as it was with the PG short pipe. Last night I decided to take a break from tuning and I made a frame stiffener from a piece of stainless steel tube. It's not bolted to anything but it is wedged in place pretty well. I may or may not attach it in some way eventually.  |
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 9, 2017 19:30:41 GMT -5
I finally got tired of chasing my tail getting this thing tuned with the PG short pipe and put the V8 pipe back on this scooter as gsx600racer suggested (thanks for the reality check!). I have a halfway decent tune going so far but it sucks to be back down to around 43 MPH. WOT temps are lower with this 19mm dell carb compared to what they were with the stock carb. I am still struggling with the overall tune of this scoot, but it's not nearly as bad as it was with the PG short pipe. Last night I decided to take a break from tuning and I made a frame stiffener from a piece of stainless steel tube. It's not bolted to anything but it is wedged in place pretty well. I may or may not attach it in some way eventually.  All I can say is "been there and done that with the PG short exhaust".  What are your max rpms ? Did you try it with the rubber intake snorkel removed from the air box? |
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Post by oldgeek on Mar 9, 2017 20:22:45 GMT -5
I finally got tired of chasing my tail getting this thing tuned with the PG short pipe and put the V8 pipe back on this scooter as gsx600racer suggested (thanks for the reality check!). I have a halfway decent tune going so far but it sucks to be back down to around 43 MPH. WOT temps are lower with this 19mm dell carb compared to what they were with the stock carb. I am still struggling with the overall tune of this scoot, but it's not nearly as bad as it was with the PG short pipe. Last night I decided to take a break from tuning and I made a frame stiffener from a piece of stainless steel tube. It's not bolted to anything but it is wedged in place pretty well. I may or may not attach it in some way eventually. All I can say is "been there and done that with the PG short exhaust". What are your max rpms ? 8200, then it drops down just before the shift, climbs back to about 7500-7600 Which variator should I buy for it? |
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Post by spaz12 on Mar 10, 2017 1:59:55 GMT -5
Can you put a Multivar on it? Scooterpartsco.com usually has great prices for the Malossi stuff.
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 10, 2017 12:42:51 GMT -5
For variators, Polini high speed or Malossi multivar is the high end price range, Keli, Stage6, Daytona or PG dio are mid range price, then there is the DDX "race" version Iv tried from treats thats not bad for the price.($20)
The PG dio @ SSS looks slick, there is nothing to it(light weight).
I don't understand how your losing so much rpm's after the "gear shift" If you pulling 8k or better on take offs, you should be able to get back there at top speed.
Whats your current CVT setup?(weights / springs / belt) Are you using a different drive boss or shims ?
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Post by oldgeek on Mar 11, 2017 23:45:49 GMT -5
I don't understand how your losing so much rpm's after the "gear shift" If you pulling 8k or better on take offs, you should be able to get back there at top speed. Whats your current CVT setup?(weights / springs / belt) Are you using a different drive boss or shims ? I will have to check everything as I cannot remember due to so many changes. Lol! I think I have 5.75G rollers, stock belt, PG drive face, upgraded drive plate, stock contra spring, and the longer drive boss. S6 adjustable clutch white springs, I need a bit heavier springs. I may need to put the 6g rollers back in, but I want to finish tuning the carb before I start mucking with CVT again. |
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 14, 2017 15:31:19 GMT -5
I wanted to ask this before, but I couldn't find the picture. Did you try removing the snorkel in the air box in the "IN" side(cover) ?  |
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Post by oldgeek on Mar 26, 2017 22:10:06 GMT -5
I wanted to ask this before, but I couldn't find the picture. Did you try removing the snorkel in the air box in the "IN" side(cover) ?  Sorry for the delay in responding, I did remove the snorkle early on. I also tried cutting all of the tube from it and reinstalling just the top hood part, but in the end I just removed it all together. The carb is still being a PITA to get tuned perfectly. Temps are down for sure now. The throttle started hanging a bit and slow to return to idle, which caused me to think it was hotter than the temp gauge was showing for a while. In the end it was actually the stock cable binding, worn out at the location where the splitter for the oil pump cable was. I installed a brand new cable meant for a GY6 on it. It ended up working great, but damm it can be aggravating making a throttle cable fit properly without it being a hack job. |
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Post by oldgeek on Apr 9, 2017 21:18:40 GMT -5
I finally got the 19mm PHBG clone carb tuned on this scoot where I am happy with it. The PHBG carb is very tuneable and small changes on one element can impact other elements of the tune. I have also come to the conclusion that no matter where you buy your jets, the size printed on them is rarely correct. IMO it is a necessity to have a jet drill kit to ID the actual jet size you are working with. Otherwise you may loose your sanity.
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Post by oldgeek on Apr 11, 2017 22:24:13 GMT -5
I started having issues with the S6 adjustable clutch grabbing or engaging roughly in stop and go traffic. The problem goes away after it cools off, but the problem will start coming back sooner and worse the next time. Judging by the number of used worn out springs I have in my clutch spring box ,I guess I have had this problem a lot with all of my scoots.
The only new springs I have left specifically for the S6 clutch are the white soft springs, which allow the clutch to engage at much too low RPM for my tastes. It does not help matters that I weigh so much. The springs specifically for the stage 6 clutch have a smaller diameter than stock clutch springs, which allows the S6 springs to fit through the cutouts in the front of the S6 clutch enabling you to change the clutch springs without removing the clutch from the scoot if you want to. Because the S6 clutch springs are smaller and shorter than stock clutch springs I believe they wear out quicker than stock springs in a stock clutch.
Anyway I grabbed a set of used red 2000+ RPM STOCK springs, and was able to get them installed on the S6 clutch. I had to turn the adjusters of each spring all the way to tight because the stock springs are longer than the S6 springs. So far they seem to work pretty good, and since they are beefier I hope they will last longer than the S6 springs that are made for the S6 clutch. The adjusters on the S6 clutch make changing the clutch springs much easier. You do not have to stretch the springs to get them installed like you do on a stock clutch.
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