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Post by gsx600racer on Jan 20, 2017 17:08:13 GMT -5
There is not much to adjust on the stock carb. You could try shimming the needle up with small washers. The pilot is fixed. If you goto the Honda spree wiki site there is a tutorial on how to drill the pilot larger. I bought the needle that goes in the elite carb that's adjustable. Will send pics and # when I get home. I'm surprised you are not using the doppler intake you got from treats awhile back and use a Delo 17 or 19 mm carb. I think that would make life a little easier. Iv found stock carb will work, but the compression and squish has to be on the mild side to keep temps down. Are you running the stock air box or pod filter? |
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Post by oldgeek on Jan 20, 2017 22:50:37 GMT -5
There is not much to adjust on the stock carb. You could try shimming the needle up with small washers. The pilot is fixed. If you goto the Honda spree wiki site there is a tutorial on how to drill the pilot larger. I bought the needle that goes in the elite carb that's adjustable. Will send pics and # when I get home. I'm surprised you are not using the doppler intake you got from treats awhile back and use a Delo 17 or 19 mm carb. I think that would make life a little easier. Iv found stock carb will work, but the compression and squish has to be on the mild side to keep temps down. Are you running the stock air box or pod filter? Thanks for this post, it helped me immensely in a couple ways. I read it not long after you posted it while I was working on tuning the carb. I forgot you could shim a fixed needle. I could not find anything suitable to shim the needle with at the shop but then I realized I have one of the Elite carbs you mentioned on the upper storage deck so I just went up there and grabbed it since I will never need it for the Elite anyways. The elite needle is a lot thinner/richer than the stock Kymco needle, and that is what I was needing.I moved the clip on the needle to the top notch before putting it in.  And finally you asked what airbox I am using and that reminded me I had forgotten to pull the snorkel out of the stock airbox that I am using. Lots of forgetting stuff lately, I just turned 51 Wednesday so that my excuse  Even funnier. The reason I did not use the Doppler intake and a PHBG 19 carb is that I wanted to keep things simple. LoL! Looking back that would have been the easier path, and I may still may do it because the stock carb is still not perfect yet. I ran out of daylight tuning it, and could not see the temp gauge so I quit until tomorrow. On another note I took a close look at the ramp plate and rollers that came in the Airsal kit. I dont really know what scoot they were meant for because the ramp plate will not fit an AF16/SC10 crankshaft, and the rollers weigh a whopping 12.3 grams each! That is a total weight of 73.8 grams, there is no way that is right. 
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Post by gsx600racer on Jan 20, 2017 23:31:06 GMT -5
There is not much to adjust on the stock carb. You could try shimming the needle up with small washers. The pilot is fixed. If you goto the Honda spree wiki site there is a tutorial on how to drill the pilot larger. I bought the needle that goes in the elite carb that's adjustable. Will send pics and # when I get home. I'm surprised you are not using the doppler intake you got from treats awhile back and use a Delo 17 or 19 mm carb. I think that would make life a little easier. Iv found stock carb will work, but the compression and squish has to be on the mild side to keep temps down. Are you running the stock air box or pod filter? Thanks for this post, it helped me immensely in a couple ways. I read it not long after you posted it while I was working on tuning the carb. I forgot you could shim a fixed needle. I could not find anything suitable to shim the needle with at the shop but then I realized I have one of the Elite carbs you mentioned on the upper storage deck so I just went up there and grabbed it since I will never need it for the Elite anyways. The elite needle is a lot thinner/richer than the stock Kymco needle, and that is what I was needing.I moved the clip on the needle to the top notch before putting it in.  And finally you asked what airbox I am using and that reminded me I had forgotten to pull the snorkel out of the stock airbox that I am using. Lots of forgetting stuff lately, I just turned 51 Wednesday so that my excuse Even funnier. The reason I did not use the Doppler intake and a PHBG 19 carb is that I wanted to keep things simple. LoL! Looking back that would have been the easier path, and I may still may do it because the stock carb is still not perfect yet. I ran out of daylight tuning it, and could not see the temp gauge so I quit until tomorrow. On another note I took a close look at the ramp plate and rollers that came in the Airsal kit. I dont really know what scoot they were meant for because the ramp plate will not fit an AF16/SC10 crankshaft, and the rollers weigh a whopping 12.3 grams each! That is a total weight of 73.8 grams, there is no way that is right.  Guess you could say Iv been there once in my previous response. LOL Dont get me wrong, you can get the stock carb to work, but depending on the cyl setup its a balancing act on how you deal with WOT temps. A sport exhaust will help get the heat out too.(V8 hint hint) Cool that you had a Honda carb, Id be tempted to use the whole carb. This way the atomizer and the needle are matching.(or swap them to the Kymco carb) Keep in mind, you do have a fresh hone, so your heat is going to be on the high side till broke in some. A little heavy on the oil ratio will help some too on the first tank. I think I broke mine in with 100 or 105 MJ, the dialed it back to 98. Thats crazy with the ramp and rollers. For a sec I thought you got goof rollers(no holes drilled in them), but the site shows em solid too. The ramp might be for the Spree with the smaller crank.(AF18) |
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Post by oldgeek on Jan 20, 2017 23:44:41 GMT -5
Thanks for this post, it helped me immensely in a couple ways. I read it not long after you posted it while I was working on tuning the carb. I forgot you could shim a fixed needle. I could not find anything suitable to shim the needle with at the shop but then I realized I have one of the Elite carbs you mentioned on the upper storage deck so I just went up there and grabbed it since I will never need it for the Elite anyways. The elite needle is a lot thinner/richer than the stock Kymco needle, and that is what I was needing.I moved the clip on the needle to the top notch before putting it in. And finally you asked what airbox I am using and that reminded me I had forgotten to pull the snorkel out of the stock airbox that I am using. Lots of forgetting stuff lately, I just turned 51 Wednesday so that my excuse Even funnier. The reason I did not use the Doppler intake and a PHBG 19 carb is that I wanted to keep things simple. LoL! Looking back that would have been the easier path, and I may still may do it because the stock carb is still not perfect yet. I ran out of daylight tuning it, and could not see the temp gauge so I quit until tomorrow. On another note I took a close look at the ramp plate and rollers that came in the Airsal kit. I dont really know what scoot they were meant for because the ramp plate will not fit an AF16/SC10 crankshaft, and the rollers weigh a whopping 12.3 grams each! That is a total weight of 73.8 grams, there is no way that is right. Guess you could say Iv been there once in my previous response. LOL Dont get me wrong, you can get the stock carb to work, but depending on the cyl setup its a balancing act on how you deal with WOT temps. A sport exhaust will help get the heat out too.(V8 hint hint) Cool that you had a Honda carb, Id be tempted to use the whole carb. This way the atomizer and the needle are matching.(or swap them to the Kymco carb) Keep in mind, you do have a fresh hone, so your heat is going to be on the high side till broke in some. A little heavy on the oil ratio will help some too on the first tank. I think I broke mine in with 100 or 105 MJ, the dialed it back to 98. Thats crazy with the ramp and rollers. For a sec I thought you got goof rollers(no holes drilled in them), but the site shows em solid too. The ramp might be for the Spree with the smaller crank.(AF18) Yeah, the V8 pipe has been on this scoot since I started this build.  Great point about the carb, I will likely get the rest of the elite carb and just swap it all into the Kymco. I put a little extra oil in the gas tank and I am sure it is making the mixture leaner just a bit. When you ended up with the 98 MJ were you using premix or were you still running the oil pump? |
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Post by gsx600racer on Jan 21, 2017 0:40:10 GMT -5
Guess you could say Iv been there once in my previous response. LOL Dont get me wrong, you can get the stock carb to work, but depending on the cyl setup its a balancing act on how you deal with WOT temps. A sport exhaust will help get the heat out too.(V8 hint hint) Cool that you had a Honda carb, Id be tempted to use the whole carb. This way the atomizer and the needle are matching.(or swap them to the Kymco carb) Keep in mind, you do have a fresh hone, so your heat is going to be on the high side till broke in some. A little heavy on the oil ratio will help some too on the first tank. I think I broke mine in with 100 or 105 MJ, the dialed it back to 98. Thats crazy with the ramp and rollers. For a sec I thought you got goof rollers(no holes drilled in them), but the site shows em solid too. The ramp might be for the Spree with the smaller crank.(AF18) Yeah, the V8 pipe has been on this scoot since I started this build. Great point about the carb, I will likely get the rest of the elite carb and just swap it all into the Kymco. I put a little extra oil in the gas tank and I am sure it is making the mixture leaner just a bit. When you ended up with the 98 MJ were you using premix or were you still running the oil pump? Premix. If you go heavy(not crazy) on the oil and upping the jetting(100 or better) I think your lean(from over oiling) cancels out with the larger jetting(more fuel) to an extent. Yeah, you stumble a bit at the top from being rich, but its only for a tank or so then you can lean up the jetting and go back to 40-32 to one mix. I had issues with my Malossi build a couple years ago with heat and soft seizing.(stock carb and exhaust) The V8 exhaust helped with getting the heat out of the engine. |
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Post by oldgeek on Jan 22, 2017 22:51:23 GMT -5
Spent a little more time last night and this afternoon tuning the carb and playing with the CVT setup just a bit. The carb is pretty good. I have not been able to do an extended WOT run due to the rain but temps seem like they will stay below 300°F using a 101 MJ.
I switched out the stock clutch and put a S6 clutch on to try to help with the launch, and also tried lighter and then heavier rollers in the variator but ended up going back to the 7g rollers that were in it to begin with. 43 mph is the top speed at the moment, I feel like there is more there, just gotta find it.
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Post by oldgeek on Jan 22, 2017 22:56:08 GMT -5
This is my first time using a temp gauge to help tune, I do not know how I ever got along without one. This, my first aluminium kit would have been toast by now had I not had a temp gauge. The cast iron kits are much more forgiving. |
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Post by niz76 on Jan 23, 2017 0:05:49 GMT -5
This is my first time using a temp gauge to help tune, I do not know how I ever got along without one. This, my first aluminium kit would have been toast by now had I not had a temp gauge. The cast iron kits are much more forgiving. I felt/feel the same way! |
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Post by gsx600racer on Jan 23, 2017 6:43:10 GMT -5
@ 43 mph, whats the RPM's ? My guess with stock carb & air box you should be in the mid 8's to low 9's I wonder if its worth taking a step backwards and get it back on the bench and break out the degree wheel ? Get an idea what #'s you have going on inside. I know you mentioned running the 70cc head with the pop-up piston designed for the stock head. Be curious to know what the squish is as wells as the compression too. I think there are working in your favor keeping temps down. (large squish gap & lower compression #'s)  Personally with the low temps you have now and decent CVT tune. Just break it in, get some miles on it and a few tanks of gas thru then go back and start tuning.  |
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Post by oldgeek on Jan 23, 2017 8:46:19 GMT -5
@ 43 mph, whats the RPM's ? My guess with stock carb & air box you should be in the mid 8's to low 9's I wonder if its worth taking a step backwards and get it back on the bench and break out the degree wheel ? Get an idea what #'s you have going on inside. I know you mentioned running the 70cc head with the pop-up piston designed for the stock head. Be curious to know what the squish is as wells as the compression too. I think there are working in your favor keeping temps down. (large squish gap & lower compression #'s) Personally with the low temps you have now and decent CVT tune. Just break it in, get some miles on it and a few tanks of gas thru then go back and start tuning. No tach but I believe the rpms are as you say, likely under 9k anyway. I am not really interested spending much time with this setup, it is mainly just to get me by until I can build a decent motor, again. Gotta remember this kit is just under 65cc so I don't expect much. I did check compression, I think it was 150,squish was over 1mm I wonder how the PG Short pipe would work. |
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Post by gsx600racer on Jan 23, 2017 14:09:19 GMT -5
@ 43 mph, whats the RPM's ? My guess with stock carb & air box you should be in the mid 8's to low 9's I wonder if its worth taking a step backwards and get it back on the bench and break out the degree wheel ? Get an idea what #'s you have going on inside. I know you mentioned running the 70cc head with the pop-up piston designed for the stock head. Be curious to know what the squish is as wells as the compression too. I think there are working in your favor keeping temps down. (large squish gap & lower compression #'s) Personally with the low temps you have now and decent CVT tune. Just break it in, get some miles on it and a few tanks of gas thru then go back and start tuning. No tach but I believe the rpms are as you say, likely under 9k anyway. I am not really interested spending much time with this setup, it is mainly just to get me by until I can build a decent motor, again. Gotta remember this kit is just under 65cc so I don't expect much. I did check compression, I think it was 150,squish was over 1mm I wonder how the PG Short pipe would work. I honestly don't know how the PG exhaust will work on your setup. On my Corsa build with ct intake, 21mm carb, open filter. case intake opened up, and cylinder to case matching...... My engine refused to wake up till I got my launch PRM's over 6k. I basically ended up here.I am going to assume with your stock carb & air box & different cyl, the PG Short exhaust is going to behave differently than mine. I wish I had better info for ya. I only know what Iv experienced so far with my stuff. |
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Post by oldgeek on Feb 25, 2017 22:37:28 GMT -5
I picked up a Trail tech Vapor computer from Treatland for a pretty good deal during the recent sale they had. I decided to install it on the naked Kymco for now since it is so easy to work on this scoot. It added to my rats nest of wiring, but I got everything working and mounted in about an hour. I fabbed up a mount from a 5/8 copper tube that just pokes down into the steering tube on this scoot, it fits pretty well. I will likely build a dash plate to mount the Vapor on sometime later, and possibly get the wires hid behind it. Despite the ratty look of this scoot, it is still my favorite.   upload gambar |
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Post by oldgeek on Feb 26, 2017 21:37:27 GMT -5
Took a ride on this scoot today about 20 miles. I got a chance to check out the newly installed Vapor computer. It is a pretty nice upgrade IMO, I like it more than I thought would its nice to have all the info in one place, but it would be nice if the display was just a bit bigger.
In the process of getting the speedometer setup I needed to take the front wheel off to glue the magnet to the wheel. While getting ready to place the magnet I realized the tire on the rim was a Duro. I had a michelin power pure on the front wheel of my other Kymco that is not on the road so I decided to move the whole wheel from that scoot to this scoot. I know I keep talking about how good the dual compound Michelin power pure tires are but I really like them. They grip like mad especially in the corners. I have had several sets on different scoots and I can definitely tell a difference when I am riding a scoot without them. They are a softer tire so they will not last as long as many other tires, but I feel that is a small price to pay for keeping the rubber on the ground and my skin on my bones.
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Post by oldgeek on Mar 5, 2017 0:18:37 GMT -5
I decided give the Phongeer short pipe I have a try on this scoot. With the V8 pipe top speed was 43mph @7800 rpm. With the Phongeer short it jumped up to 48mph @8400 rpm. It really surprised me to see that much gain with just a pipe.  After getting the pipe installed I figured the stock carb was at its limits, so I decided to upgrade the stock carb to a 19mm dell PHBG. I also replaced the stock intake with a doppler intake, and I replaced the stock metal reed with a polini CF reed that came in some other kit. The stock airbox would not work with the dell carb, so I put a doppler airbox on. I worked on the carb tune and did a little CVT tweaking for the rest of the evening. The weather is chilly and my jacket was at the house so I could not do much test riding, but it feels pretty strong so far and acceleration is crazy better.  This is the first aluminium kit I have ever used. You definitely have to be very careful setting up an aluminum kit up. I think I almost soft seized it one time trying to get it tuned. Moving from the stock intake, stock carb and stock airbox at one time is a lot to deal with. |
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Post by niz76 on Mar 5, 2017 2:59:05 GMT -5
Woowee that scoot got some lovin! Nice upgrades!
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