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Post by pinkflames420 on Mar 8, 2017 17:41:54 GMT -5
Yes you've read correctly! I plan to install my bbk tomorrow assuming the weather lets me(damn I really need a shed/garage). So today I've cleaned up the cylinder, did some honing, adjusted piston ring gap to .008, and removed all the plastics yesterday. I think I'm ready 🙂 Also decided to purchase a beam torque wrench if anyone was wondering. I'll be using Brent's step-by-step on how to install a BBK ON a 1E40QMB engine. So, I have 2 small concerns and I hoped to get some help from you experienced enthusiasts/geeks! 1. My head gasket(copper) seems to have one side with a groove making the other side NOT completely flat... hard to explain(I'll post a couple pics) but basically the center circle has a groove all the way around protruding outwards. I'm wondering which side the flat side goes on? The cylinder or the cylinder head? I tried to see which way it sits better but neither seems right with the groove lol 2. Is there some sort of technique to getting the piston into the cylinder when your installing? It seems a little difficult having the piston rings kinda flopping around on the piston  I'm a little stumped on that one. First pic is with the groove protruding upwards, while the second its protruding downwards. Hope this makes sense!   |
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Post by pinkflames420 on Mar 8, 2017 17:55:38 GMT -5
I used paint brush cleaner/mineral spirits, as suggested for cylinder honing, along with some 400 grit wet/dry sand paper. I think 60 grit is the lowest I have so I choose 400. Looks okay to me 🙂   A manufacturing flaw on the right side ports  it's pretty rough there but it's hard to get it completely smoooth at that angle.  |
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 8, 2017 18:32:42 GMT -5
Yes you've read correctly! I plan to install my bbk tomorrow assuming the weather lets me(damn I really need a shed/garage). So today I've cleaned up the cylinder, did some honing, adjusted piston ring gap to .008, and removed all the plastics yesterday. I think I'm ready 🙂 Also decided to purchase a beam torque wrench if anyone was wondering. I'll be using Brent's step-by-step on how to install a BBK ON a 1E40QMB engine. So, I have 2 small concerns and I hoped to get some help from you experienced enthusiasts/geeks! 1. My head gasket(copper) seems to have one side with a groove making the other side NOT completely flat... hard to explain(I'll post a couple pics) but basically the center circle has a groove all the way around protruding outwards. I'm wondering which side the flat side goes on? The cylinder or the cylinder head? I tried to see which way it sits better but neither seems right with the groove lol 2. Is there some sort of technique to getting the piston into the cylinder when your installing? It seems a little difficult having the piston rings kinda flopping around on the piston I'm a little stumped on that one. First pic is with the groove protruding upwards, while the second its protruding downwards. Hope this makes sense! Installing the piston can be tricky sometimes. What I do is first make sure the ring gaps are aligned with the pins in the ring grooves. I rotate the crank to top dead center(this is assuming you have already install the piston on the con rod/bearing/ and cir clips are installed) and work the side if the piston that has the ring alignment pins(boost port or opposite of exhaust). Once the ring is started on that side I work around the piston on both sides going towards the exhaust port, work the second ring in the same way. If you feel resistance getting it to fit, STOP. Back the piston out and double check the ring gap and alignment pin in piston to confirm its in the correct location. The repeat above process. Once you are confident the piston is in properly, drop the cyl on about half way and gently rotate the cyl back and forth on the piston and listen and feel the rings hitting on the alignment pins. If the cyl had a lot of resistance, remove piston and start over.(chances are the ring is bound up in the alignment pin). OIL, dont be afraid of using a lot of it(2 stroke oil) while assembling. Oil everything that moves or touches other metal parts. Crank bearing, con rod large bearing, rings, wrist pin, pin bearing. and the walls off the cyl prior to assembling and afterward. I also add about 1/4-1/2 oz in the crankcase. |
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Post by pinkflames420 on Mar 8, 2017 19:45:43 GMT -5
Yes you've read correctly! I plan to install my bbk tomorrow assuming the weather lets me(damn I really need a shed/garage). So today I've cleaned up the cylinder, did some honing, adjusted piston ring gap to .008, and removed all the plastics yesterday. I think I'm ready 🙂 Also decided to purchase a beam torque wrench if anyone was wondering. I'll be using Brent's step-by-step on how to install a BBK ON a 1E40QMB engine. So, I have 2 small concerns and I hoped to get some help from you experienced enthusiasts/geeks! 1. My head gasket(copper) seems to have one side with a groove making the other side NOT completely flat... hard to explain(I'll post a couple pics) but basically the center circle has a groove all the way around protruding outwards. I'm wondering which side the flat side goes on? The cylinder or the cylinder head? I tried to see which way it sits better but neither seems right with the groove lol 2. Is there some sort of technique to getting the piston into the cylinder when your installing? It seems a little difficult having the piston rings kinda flopping around on the piston I'm a little stumped on that one. First pic is with the groove protruding upwards, while the second its protruding downwards. Hope this makes sense! Installing the piston can be tricky sometimes. What I do is first make sure the ring gaps are aligned with the pins in the ring grooves. I rotate the crank to top dead center(this is assuming you have already install the piston on the con rod/bearing/ and cir clips are installed) and work the side if the piston that has the ring alignment pins(boost port or opposite of exhaust). Once the ring is started on that side I work around the piston on both sides going towards the exhaust port, work the second ring in the same way. If you feel resistance getting it to fit, STOP. Back the piston out and double check the ring gap and alignment pin in piston to confirm its in the correct location. The repeat above process. Once you are confident the piston is in properly, drop the cyl on about half way and gently rotate the cyl back and forth on the piston and listen and feel the rings hitting on the alignment pins. If the cyl had a lot of resistance, remove piston and start over.(chances are the ring is bound up in the alignment pin). OIL, dont be afraid of using a lot of it(2 stroke oil) while assembling. Oil everything that moves or touches other metal parts. Crank bearing, con rod large bearing, rings, wrist pin, pin bearing. and the walls off the cyl prior to assembling and afterward. I also add about 1/4-1/2 oz in the crankcase. Thanks gs. I had to ask, it really seemed I needed a magical trick. Okay so I'll make sure to start working the side with the "alignment pins" first. I'm definitely gonna have to be careful with this one , but I think my little hands will do me good here 🙂 That's also smart, the way you check the rings...rotating the cylinder back and forth. I'll take note of that! Actually! -and yes I grabbed myself another bottle of amsoil injector, what I'm using for now, to lube all the parts. But what do you mean by in the crankcase? Like where the rod is coming out from? |
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Post by ryan_ott on Mar 8, 2017 20:06:03 GMT -5
Double check that piece of metal in the transfer port, make certain it can't be removed. Maybe a little persuasion with a small file. If that brakes free once assembled and running that won't be a good thing. As for the gasket either way up is fine. Also wash the cylinder and wipe until a paper towel comes out clean. I think you got everything else covered. Don't forget to oil.
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Post by pinkflames420 on Mar 8, 2017 22:12:40 GMT -5
Double check that piece of metal in the transfer port, make certain it can't be removed. Maybe a little persuasion with a small file. If that brakes free once assembled and running that won't be a good thing. As for the gasket either way up is fine. Also wash the cylinder and wipe until a paper towel comes out clean. I think you got everything else covered. Don't forget to oil. Thank you, I wasn't sure which way, just thought Id check for certain. I did file the little nub sticking out so it wasn't sharp, but it's still there. It doesn't look as big in the pic but it's a quit a few mm's wide. I think a nail file is best at this point 🙂 Can't seem to get in there with the files I have. There all flat and I haven't gotten a good set with rounded edges yet. I'm going to remove as much as possible. I really don't wanna ruin anything....not yet anyways. Sorry guys I know this is all noob stuff, bare with me!! |
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Post by niz76 on Mar 8, 2017 23:05:51 GMT -5
I was the same way with my first BBK install.  It's better to be very thorough like you are being and you've done your homework so I have a feeling you'll have great success! Getting the cylinder down over the piston/rings def can be tricky. I'm sure small hands will be an advantage there! Even some cussing is normal sometimes haha. If you're doing the bbk install with the engine in the bike the circlips can be a bit of a pain too... If you've got fingernails that might help with the piston into cylinder install too as I often find myself trying to reach around the backside of the piston with a little pick or something to pop the ring in after one side is slid in. This will make more sense when you get there! A little trick I've found myself using more often now is to mark the locations of the locator pins on the piston somewhere with a sharpie. I make a little mark on the piston below the locator pin as when you're struggling to get the rings compressed and wishing you had a third hand one ring always seems so rotate or move and the locator pins are tiny and hard to see so it's nice to have the sharpie mark as a visual aid so you know for sure you've still got the ring gap aligned correctly over the pin while squeezing, tilting, sliding, leveling, twisting, and sometimes cussing all at the same time! Hehe. I'm sure you'll do great Pinkflames! Having Brent's BBK install guide open on the computer like you mentioned is a Godsend 4 sure. What did we ever do before the internet!? |
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Post by AtariGuy on Mar 9, 2017 1:20:40 GMT -5
Say, i dont mean to hijack this post, but this is something pink and i are actually undertaking simultaneously. First, pink, did you remember to order some upjetting for your bbk? I forgot and just thought about that myself today at work. Dumb question for the bbk vets, going from stock 40 (my jets are 22.5 pilot, 70 main) to a 47mm bbk, what size (or range of) jets would be a good starting point to upjet to?
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Post by eclark5483 on Mar 9, 2017 2:28:37 GMT -5
36-38 on the pilot, and 85 on the main. Standard fast idle tuning procedure should tell you if the pilot is rich or lean, main jet is more trial and error.
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Post by pinkflames420 on Mar 9, 2017 2:56:02 GMT -5
I was the same way with my first BBK install. It's better to be very thorough like you are being and you've done your homework so I have a feeling you'll have great success! Getting the cylinder down over the piston/rings def can be tricky. I'm sure small hands will be an advantage there! Even some cussing is normal sometimes haha. If you're doing the bbk install with the engine in the bike the circlips can be a bit of a pain too... If you've got fingernails that might help with the piston into cylinder install too as I often find myself trying to reach around the backside of the piston with a little pick or something to pop the ring in after one side is slid in. This will make more sense when you get there! A little trick I've found myself using more often now is to mark the locations of the locator pins on the piston somewhere with a sharpie. I make a little mark on the piston below the locator pin as when you're struggling to get the rings compressed and wishing you had a third hand one ring always seems so rotate or move and the locator pins are tiny and hard to see so it's nice to have the sharpie mark as a visual aid so you know for sure you've still got the ring gap aligned correctly over the pin while squeezing, tilting, sliding, leveling, twisting, and sometimes cussing all at the same time! Hehe. I'm sure you'll do great Pinkflames! Having Brent's BBK install guide open on the computer like you mentioned is a Godsend 4 sure. What did we ever do before the internet!? You guys and your tricks lol thank you thank you for sharing them all!! I'll go ahead and make a few marks on piston. I did think about taking the engine off, but I really don't have the room for it right now. I just decided with removing the plastics. Eventually tho, I'm sure I will do some work with the engine off  |
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Post by pinkflames420 on Mar 9, 2017 3:07:51 GMT -5
Say, i dont mean to hijack this post, but this is something pink and i are actually undertaking simultaneously. First, pink, did you remember to order some upjetting for your bbk? I forgot and just thought about that myself today at work. Dumb question for the bbk vets, going from stock 40 (my jets are 22.5 pilot, 70 main) to a 47mm bbk, what size (or range of) jets would be a good starting point to upjet to? That's alright, I find myself doing the same. I'm glad you asked, because I'm not too sure about the pilot. I thiiiink mine is a 22.5 but I don't remember. My main is the same, 70. I grabbed an assortment of main jets from 75 - 90/95 I believe. I think I'm going to try the 85 or 90 first. I guess eclark solved your(now my) concern about the pilot. I guess I need to find some pilots now  Do you think I can still run the stock until I get an assortment? Or will it be too lean condition. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 9, 2017 6:35:38 GMT -5
36-38 is Huge on a typical Chinarelli carb. All of mine use 17.5-22.5 stock. I've been able to keep stock pilots, but I don't use open filters. I always have a big selection of main jets around. At least 70-100. As long as you buy in kits, they aren't terribly expensive. |
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Post by 190mech on Mar 9, 2017 8:21:42 GMT -5
Should squish and other details be discussed,or perhaps at a later date??
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Post by AtariGuy on Mar 9, 2017 10:29:33 GMT -5
I think squish would be a good topic too since we're at it. I recall reading a few build threads which call on squish as a baseline for getting close to a good compression range. I do know those 2 measures are different. Please correct me if i'm wrong at any point though. To measure ones squish, you use basic lead solder wire in 1.5-2mm diameter, clip a section roughly 5-7 inches and give it a nice angle bend. The idea is to get the wire into the cylinder through the spark plug hole in the head and to the side of the cylinder, then "squish" the solder wire between the head and piston by rotating the crank. You then remove the wire and check how flattened the wire got with a micrometer. Its also good to take this reading for all 4 corners around the cylinder (12, 3, 6, and 9 o clock if you prefer.) Heres where i'm fuzzy though, what we should have for a good squish and how quickly outside this range does it go bad? I know too thick, it runs poorly (lack of compression) and too thin and you need race gas octane, detonation happens, and extreme wear on starting components also becomes an issue. If i recall, the range should be 0.8 to 1.2 mm?
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Post by AtariGuy on Mar 9, 2017 10:38:13 GMT -5
At this point, i'm still waiting for my order to show up with my cylinder inside (fedex tracking says tomorrow), but i already plan to prep my cylinder, do a port map, set my base gaskets for port timings, squish on the head, and do the compression and leakdown tests. I'll be reporting my findings on my venice build thread too.
I've been following along here though because its been reminding me to check and double check all the things i have to do. Its pretty neat that pink and i are doing this roughly about the same time, she's just been beating me to the questions lol
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I'm a little stumped on that one. 
it's pretty rough there but it's hard to get it completely smoooth at that angle.
